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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Please make *ONE* thing in this game reliant on skill.

  1. #1

    Please make *ONE* thing in this game reliant on skill.

    Hear me out.

    In CWL, clans are ordered by overall ability. Clans are fluid. So the ladder allows clans to rise and fall and most clans are finding their rung on the ladder season to season.

    In Main Village, people farm or don't want to do Legends League, so they drop down to a lower tier and pick bases that are easy prey. There's a Next button for those still pushing up to skip over the tougher bases of the sandbaggers.

    In Builder Base, there is no fluidity. Your base and skill don't suddenly get weaker at any point. Nor is there farming of resources. You aren't able to "Next." So why (other than being wusses or bullies) are people who have an all time high of 3500+ trophies allowed to drop down to 2500-2800 trophies and draw easy bases (making it nearly impossible for others to climb)?

    Make Builder Base so players draw bases in their all-time max trophy range. If you hit 4000, great! Now you can draw like opponents who have hit 4000. Even if you drop to 2500. If you don't like being pitted against your proven skill level, I give the same advice others would give me ("Get better").

    So while I try to improve my base and skills, match me against those who have comparable bases and skills. Stop hammering me with sandbaggers who were once 3500-4000 trophies and are wusses, bullies, and/or jerks trolling 1000-1500 below their proven ability.

  2. #2
    Forum Champion Phoenix1027's Avatar
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    But how would trophies work in that case? You're awarded trophies based on the difference in trophies between you and your opponent. If you have 2500 trophies currently and are matched against someone with 4000 trophies and you beat him, your opponent is gonna lose 60 trophies. I don't think that's a fair way to match players even if their skill is deserving of 4000 trophies
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  3. #3
    I'm sure SC could figure it out. Not sure someone at 2800 and trying to climb losing 30+ trophies to someone who once was 3800 and is sandbagging is fair, either.

  4. #4
    Forum Elder JohnnyPC's Avatar
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    Remember that sandbaggers have to intentionally lose 50% of the time to maintain their low trophy range, thereby giving away wins to those of you who are legitimately trying to climb. For every base they destroy 100%, they get 0% on another. It balances out.
    Last edited by JohnnyPC; July 26th, 2019 at 10:35 PM.

  5. #5
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    Hmmm

    I got to 4300 when I had my Battle Machine as a new BH9
    Now I am raiding without my Battle Machine I have lost a lot of trophies (600?) I seem to be finding similar bases, but more raiders without their BM.
    So finding easier bases, but less loot.

    Of course if I stop playing BH for 6 months those bases around 4300 are going to be a lot better, why should I still get matched with them? not sure that's fair...

    I guess I wouldn't have a problem with who I was matched with, so long as I also got appropriate loot from the 4300 league as well.
    Last edited by PhilISuppose; July 26th, 2019 at 11:11 PM. Reason: Clarity

  6. #6
    rowman's Avatar
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    Not long ago, there was no BH 9, 8 was max. Prior to that, there was no 8, 7 was max. When BH was first added to the game, everyone started at ground zero! And yes, some (with no attack troop cost) immediately began running up their trophies! So if I surpassed 5k as a BH 8, or 7, or 6 ..... what does that have to do with my "BH 9 skill"?

    Even within any constant BH level, things change over time. The defenses were much weaker many on BH 9s just one month ago. People have been upgrading dilligently, the game did not stagnate.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by rowman View Post
    Not long ago, there was no BH 9, 8 was max. Prior to that, there was no 8, 7 was max. When BH was first added to the game, everyone started at ground zero! And yes, some (with no attack troop cost) immediately began running up their trophies! So if I surpassed 5k as a BH 8, or 7, or 6 ..... what does that have to do with my "BH 9 skill"?

    Even within any constant BH level, things change over time. The defenses were much weaker many on BH 9s just one month ago. People have been upgrading dilligently, the game did not stagnate.
    Like I said, the general response is "Get better."

    The game did not stagnate so why do the players who started earlier get to sandbag because they no longer want/need to improve and want easy opponents for clan games.

    Awful hard to build up when loot is contingent on wins and the bases/armies you face are built for 1000 trophies higher than where they dropped to sit, huh? There's no "Next" button. So you get no loot. Meaning no improvement.

    Wow. No wonder so many people think BB stinks and SC has to tie a steak around its illegitimate child's neck to get the dog to play with it.

    The only reason I play BB is for Clan Games and (now Silver) Pass challenges. Other than that, it's for gem farming. Period.

    I don't care about O.T.T.O. although I will eventually complete the "railroaded quest" path to unlock it (forcing all players into "dulling sameness," exactly what good games should *not* do). I don't care about gems or any other achievement through BB, honestly. And this nonsense is exactly why.

    My point is, BB sandbagging is worse than CWL sandbaggers, engineers in CW, and people who drop trophies to farm in the MV. You can navigate around those players. But in BB the heavy bases can push their way down the ladder and sit where others can't get by them.

    If I'm expected to compete under those circumstances, then the sandbaggers should be expected to compete at their level as well. If I'm supposed to build a better base, stronger troops and learn effective attacks while my resources are throttled by sandbaggers, why do you think for one millisecond I would feel sorry for them in the ludicrous examples the BB apologists have given?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by HonoraryGoblin View Post
    Like I said, the general response is "Get better."

    The game did not stagnate so why do the players who started earlier get to sandbag because they no longer want/need to improve and want easy opponents for clan games.

    Awful hard to build up when loot is contingent on wins and the bases/armies you face are built for 1000 trophies higher than where they dropped to sit, huh? There's no "Next" button. So you get no loot. Meaning no improvement.

    Wow. No wonder so many people think BB stinks and SC has to tie a steak around its illegitimate child's neck to get the dog to play with it.

    The only reason I play BB is for Clan Games and (now Silver) Pass challenges. Other than that, it's for gem farming. Period.

    I don't care about O.T.T.O. although I will eventually complete the "railroaded quest" path to unlock it (forcing all players into "dulling sameness," exactly what good games should *not* do). I don't care about gems or any other achievement through BB, honestly. And this nonsense is exactly why.

    My point is, BB sandbagging is worse than CWL sandbaggers, engineers in CW, and people who drop trophies to farm in the MV. You can navigate around those players. But in BB the heavy bases can push their way down the ladder and sit where others can't get by them.

    If I'm expected to compete under those circumstances, then the sandbaggers should be expected to compete at their level as well. If I'm supposed to build a better base, stronger troops and learn effective attacks while my resources are throttled by sandbaggers, why do you think for one millisecond I would feel sorry for them in the ludicrous examples the BB apologists have given?
    But those sandbaggers had to drop to get down to there.
    So as well as having a chance at meeting sandbaggers and getting wrecked (happens to me too)
    You also have that chance of having players deliberately lose to you, either they are dropping 1000 trophies or trying to maintain their low position by losing half their battles.

    I don't really have a problem with your suggestion but it does have problems that would need to be resolved somehow:

    1 - naturally I sit at lower trophies when I have a BM or not. There'll always be some personal variation there. I know that without a BM I can't beat those players at 4300... that's why I lost a bunch of battles to now be at 3800 or so.
    2 - if you have a high record from previous play, you'll always match with players at that level. So if I stopped playing builder base now, and have a 4300 trophy record, and they add BH10 and I then start playing again a few months later. I'll match those BH10s literally forever because they are sitting around 4300 too. Even if I lose a battle, you say I can't find easier opponents?
    3 - if I have to face other players that have a PB of 4300 then in fairness, I ought to get win bonuses commensurate with that. Which sort of makes a mockery of trophies meaning anything at all in BH.

    I do understand the frustration, but I don't think it's really as bad as you believe.

  9. #9
    What I see a lot of are people who got just above 3000 for the gems, then dropped anywhere from 200 to 500 trophies and sit on lower BH's. I check every opponent now and that is a striking similarity among them. I have 9 bases I'm running in Games this season and they range from BH3 to BH9. My BH7 thru BH9s see a lot of "gem droppers." I have hit all of three 0% intentional losses across all my accounts compared to the myriad sandbaggers who already dropped. Games give them an easy out to lose while they target gem mines or go for wall segments. The problem is I also wind up running diluted armies or tower-specific targeting at the expense of stars. So running into a sandbagger who doesn't have a reason to care if they win still doesn't mean I will win, because I'm focusing on a 1000 point challenge at the expense of stars.

    Trophies have no meaning as it is. The whole trophy system is a mockery on both sides of the water. They are an indication where you are but the PB does have meaning as far as where you can compete. If matches (and trophies won/lost and loot) are contingent on PB rather than current cups. It would be more of a skill-based game than the status quo of "grab my gems and flop for easy clan game wins."

  10. #10
    rowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HonoraryGoblin View Post
    Like I said, the general response is "Get better."

    The game did not stagnate so why do the players who started earlier get to sandbag ...


    Where did I, or anyone above your post say, or even imply, "Get better"???

    I noted that the meta keeps changing. Grades that you received in 6th Grade has no bearing at all on grades while at a university years later. Great, you were in the top 20% of your class then (at BH 7), but now struggle as a developing BH 9. Neither did Phoenix, JohnnyPC, nor PhilISuppose say that.

    I have never intentionally lost a BB battle, ever. Nor do I know of anyone in my clan whom ever has. But we do often chat about our incredible "bad luck" streaks where we joke about "conspiracy theories" in chat. Several bad days in a row, or a 2 week "bad streak" as key defenses were upgraded, an yes several hundreds throphies lost!

    Now let us use some logic. Let us say 50% of the players intentionally lose. That by definition means they are in return giving you 50% wins! So why complain when you are being handed free wins on a silver platter? Or, do you believe they sandbag, intentionally drop while facing others, but there is a game-wide conspiracy targeting you?

    I cannot conclude on why somebody else may have dropped, nor can you (you assume they "sandbagged"). But I can speak of my own experience .... My all time high was at BH 7, when 7 was max. Yes, I also exceeded 4k as an 8, when 8 was max, but once maxed I simply stopped playing (except for some Clan Games task). Storage full. waiting for a new BH level. But ... the game goes on, including monthly trophy reset. Poof, hundreds, for some a thousand, trophies gone in a heartbeat! When BH 9 was released, due to reset, was at 4k. I wanted OTTO, made it a priority, so new defenses lagged, BM was continually down. No sandbagging, No intentional drops. But my trophies did indeed fall 1k below my all time high for a period of time.
    Last edited by rowman; July 27th, 2019 at 08:22 PM.

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