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Thread: crazy matchup

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Thegreatpuma
    I'm hoping someone might shed light on what we did wrong as I'd like to avoid it.
    You ran an 11-6 spread. They ran an 11-8 spread.

    Looking just at numbers before reading your base breakdown, it is clear #11-13 on their side are engineered by a 10 out of order and 2 bases with level 2 BK and AQ in the teens. By rights, the 2 8's on bottom could be maxed just looking at BK levels.

    What happened is the matchmaker pitted what it saw as roster engineers (11-6 spread) against base engineers.

    To avoid it in the future, don't run anything below th8 or th9 in your lineup if you have 2x 11 on top, even if you have to drop to 10v10.

    Unless you are depending on the roster engineering to give a favorable match. In that case, only run 1 low th to offset the 2x 11.

    Also, if their war log is public, look at their "average" (modal) stars/damage for wars. This will indicate how well they attack "normally progressing" bases.
    Last edited by HonoraryGoblin; July 22nd, 2019 at 02:42 AM.

  2. #12
    My clan no longer fills in the bottom with anything lower than a th8. We used to just grab a random low hall from global and throw them in the bottom spots if we needed to round out the roster and we stopped because we started facing defensless in those positions and not the type of match that was to our advantage. Now that we run th12-8 or 9 we don't face those often and when we do we have an advantage higher up.
    Contact SC here. Click here to see how trophies are calculated. I'm still thinking starting the "new" legends at Legends2 at 5500 and having Legends3 be for 5000-5499 would be good (with season resets to 5000 and 5500 depending on your trophies at season end) but overall I LOVE the Legends change. Thanks SC.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Thegreatpuma View Post
    i agree. i just don't know why we matched this heavy of an engineered clan. like i said their 11-15 is defenseless one cannon garbage. the low ten has some walls and a bunch of level 1 defenses. the th10s are missing infernos. For sure it will come down to our top two attacks, but we're likely only going to get one shot on each of their 11s while they're likely to get two unless they're bad attackers.

    my prediction is we're going to clean up the bottom, have trouble with the maxed nines and the tens will have to dip to cover. then the 11s will only get 1 attack per mirror. if you have any advice on avoiding this in the future i would appreciate it.
    I don't see why you are sweating the match when their 10's have no infernos, just go with laloon with edrag/loon in CC, clone and use the other 2 TH10 attacks versus their 2 max 9's.

    I have no advice on how to avoid such a match, unless you are looking to out-engineer them.

    our sister clan is maxxerish and we face "engineered" clans all the time, sometimes it's a much more unfavorable match than you experience but it would be a bit hypocritical of me to post about being at a disadvantage in war though most times we tend to have the advantage.

    Does this clan have a long win streak?
    Last edited by MajorJohnson; July 22nd, 2019 at 06:54 AM.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    My clan no longer fills in the bottom with anything lower than a th8. We used to just grab a random low hall from global and throw them in the bottom spots if we needed to round out the roster and we stopped because we started facing defensless in those positions and not the type of match that was to our advantage. Now that we run th12-8 or 9 we don't face those often and when we do we have an advantage higher up.
    This is the thing you should expect to find anyway, if they get a defenceless in at the bottom.
    The power within that defenceless should be sapping away at the top of their map.

    Numbers are numbers.. I dont buy into the hall spread so much as others.. if the break down is common, it will match, and usually something similar.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by HonoraryGoblin View Post
    You ran an 11-6 spread. They ran an 11-8 spread.

    Looking just at numbers before reading your base breakdown, it is clear #11-13 on their side are engineered by a 10 out of order and 2 bases with level 2 BK and AQ in the teens. By rights, the 2 8's on bottom could be maxed just looking at BK levels.

    What happened is the matchmaker pitted what it saw as roster engineers (11-6 spread) against base engineers.

    To avoid it in the future, don't run anything below th8 or th9 in your lineup if you have 2x 11 on top, even if you have to drop to 10v10.

    Unless you are depending on the roster engineering to give a favorable match. In that case, only run 1 low th to offset the 2x 11.

    Also, if their war log is public, look at their "average" (modal) stars/damage for wars. This will indicate how well they attack "normally progressing" bases.
    He has 2x 11s, and 2x 6s, so 13% of roster top weight, and same at bottom.
    But the bulk of his line up is mid range and above.
    Those 11s will contribute 25%+ of his entire weight, whereas those 6s will maybe be around 5-10%.

    I get where you are coming from, but I cant see how the MMA will see him as roster engineering, and completely throw the search with 2 give away bases.
    They will be almost irrelevant to anything that happens.
    If the break down was irregular, then sure, but it isnt, except for those 2 maybe.
    Last edited by joshsgrandad; July 22nd, 2019 at 10:25 AM.

  6. #16
    Forum Veteran Thegreatpuma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    I don't see why you are sweating the match when their 10's have no infernos, just go with laloon with edrag/loon in CC, clone and use the other 2 TH10 attacks versus their 2 max 9's.

    I have no advice on how to avoid such a match, unless you are looking to out-engineer them.

    our sister clan is maxxerish and we face "engineered" clans all the time, sometimes it's a much more unfavorable match than you experience but it would be a bit hypocritical of me to post about being at a disadvantage in war though most times we tend to have the advantage.

    Does this clan have a long win streak?
    I'm not so much sweating the matchup. No matter what it will be close. What I don't want is to be doing something with my numbers that are causing us to get matched against these guys more often. These wars are not fun.

    Their base 1 is a poor attacker and managed 2* total against our top 2. Their base 2 has not attacked yet. The rest of those who have attacked are solid average to above average attackers. Took them several tries to clear some of our weaker nines. Right now they will get 2 attacks on one of our top two bases as their tens could only get 2 on my base. Most of their base layouts are anti-2 so we have been able to get some first hit 3s and may actually end up with 2 attacks on each of their top 2.

    As for win streak, no. They are, however 12-2-1 in last 15 and recently coming off an 11 war win streak a few weeks back. https://cocp.it/clan/Q99YUGLY Whatever they are doing it's been fairly successful.


    Quote Originally Posted by HonoraryGoblin View Post
    You ran an 11-6 spread. They ran an 11-8 spread.

    Looking just at numbers before reading your base breakdown, it is clear #11-13 on their side are engineered by a 10 out of order and 2 bases with level 2 BK and AQ in the teens. By rights, the 2 8's on bottom could be maxed just looking at BK levels.

    What happened is the matchmaker pitted what it saw as roster engineers (11-6 spread) against base engineers.

    To avoid it in the future, don't run anything below th8 or th9 in your lineup if you have 2x 11 on top, even if you have to drop to 10v10.

    Unless you are depending on the roster engineering to give a favorable match. In that case, only run 1 low th to offset the 2x 11.

    Also, if their war log is public, look at their "average" (modal) stars/damage for wars. This will indicate how well they attack "normally progressing" bases.
    4 of their last 15 wars are perfect. 10v they average above 29. 15v, above 43.

    As I said, 11-15 are basically defenseless, some have some traps and walls. the out of place 10 has a bunch of level 1 defenses. They have basically 4 maxed TH9s. We are outmatched troops wise at nearly every single base. Defense wise we are significantly outmatched at the top 2 (4-1 EA levels, 20-12 infernos, 38-28 xbows), we outmatch them at 3,4 because they are 0.5. They outmatch us down to base 9 (15-30 heroes with no xbows and maxed walls) at which point their defenseless and sandbagged accounts reverse that. It's tough to have to dump 3 bases because we risk these stupid wars if we pull in TH6, but I guess going forward that's what I will do.
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  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    This is the thing you should expect to find anyway, if they get a defenceless in at the bottom.
    The power within that defenceless should be sapping away at the top of their map.

    Numbers are numbers.. I dont buy into the hall spread so much as others.. if the break down is common, it will match, and usually something similar.
    Note the difference in my experience though, yes, we get that advantage up top when we have th12-8/9. If we instead throw in some war fillers of th4,5,6 at the bottom we face defenseless without getting the advantage up top. It is like the matchmaker treated the low filler as a defenseless. This was months ago, though. We don’t do it anymore.
    Contact SC here. Click here to see how trophies are calculated. I'm still thinking starting the "new" legends at Legends2 at 5500 and having Legends3 be for 5000-5499 would be good (with season resets to 5000 and 5500 depending on your trophies at season end) but overall I LOVE the Legends change. Thanks SC.

  8. #18
    Forum Veteran Thegreatpuma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    Note the difference in my experience though, yes, we get that advantage up top when we have th12-8/9. If we instead throw in some war fillers of th4,5,6 at the bottom we face defenseless without getting the advantage up top. It is like the matchmaker treated the low filler as a defenseless. This was months ago, though. We don’t do it anymore.
    Lesson learned. I also wont be bringing our base 2 in again until he drops EA.

    Their 1 3* our 1, and will do the same on our 2 probably barring a horrible error on his part - he's a good attacker. We will need to 3* all but one base with the final base being 2* 78+%. Not outlandish, but right now we may end up with only one shot no scouts on 1&2 while they got a strong scout on both our top bases.
    TMBG War Clan always recruiting - Wars with TH7-11
    Official sister clan to Ancient Hunters
    TMBG Discord server:
    https://discord.gg/aXdgW6w
    TH10 - Doctor Worm permamax (for now)
    TH11 - doug 43/50/20 heroes

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    Note the difference in my experience though, yes, we get that advantage up top when we have th12-8/9. If we instead throw in some war fillers of th4,5,6 at the bottom we face defenseless without getting the advantage up top. It is like the matchmaker treated the low filler as a defenseless. This was months ago, though. We don’t do it anymore.
    i get where the defensive side comes from, but usually a defenceless will be loaded offensively.
    Surely that offence overload has to be paid back somewhere, otherwise its a complete mismatch, rather than simply moving the numbers around.
    Thing that puzzles me tho, is how the better engi can gain the weight, and simply keep it, without any pay back aka Sam with his hero advantage.

    I do agree balanced bases in a balanced roster is safe bet for "normal maxer type" clans tho.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    Surely that offence overload has to be paid back somewhere, otherwise its a complete mismatch..
    The mismatch is what we found was happening when adding fillers that were very low. It was a mismatch at the bottom, so it could be overcome and was not a game breaker, but it was a mismatch. So, we no longer do that. I built two th8s and another mate built another one so now we have 3 th8s to use as bottom fillers and we will move them to th9 when th13 drops.
    Contact SC here. Click here to see how trophies are calculated. I'm still thinking starting the "new" legends at Legends2 at 5500 and having Legends3 be for 5000-5499 would be good (with season resets to 5000 and 5500 depending on your trophies at season end) but overall I LOVE the Legends change. Thanks SC.

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