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Thread: Deliberately losing to maintain cwl teir against "fair play aspect"?

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Tosti111 View Post
    You obviously didn't read the entire thread before responding. I don't believe anyone said tanking in and of itself is unsportsmanlike. What was said several times and quite clearly was that tanking in a way that only rewards one clan the extra wins is unsportsmanlike. Feel free to tank all you like otherwise.
    Exactly. I didn’t say tanking is automatically unsportsmanlike. I said losing one war on purpose and thereby changing the final position of other clans that were actually trying to take part in a competition is poor sportsmanship. If I cause a clan to not win first place because I tanked the last war and gifted the 2nd place team 45 cups which pushed them into first place, that is what I’m referring to. As explained above, just putting in an equally weak roster to rotate in the whole clan and stay low is a form of tanking and is not at all poor sportsmanship.

    Let’s also not turn this into a suggestion that I think this is some huge evil to be banned out of the game. It is not a big deal at all. It simply is my opinion that some tanking is not poor sportsmanship and some tanking is. The details matter.
    Contact SC here. Click here to see how trophies are calculated. I'm still thinking starting the "new" legends at Legends2 at 5500 and having Legends3 be for 5000-5499 would be good (with season resets to 5000 and 5500 depending on your trophies at season end) but overall I LOVE the Legends change. Thanks SC.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tosti111 View Post
    You obviously didn't read the entire thread before responding. I don't believe anyone said tanking in and of itself is unsportsmanlike. What was said several times and quite clearly was that tanking in a way that only rewards one clan the extra wins is unsportsmanlike. Feel free to tank all you like otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    Exactly. I didn’t say tanking is automatically unsportsmanlike. I said losing one war on purpose and thereby changing the final position of other clans that were actually trying to take part in a competition is poor sportsmanship. If I cause a clan to not win first place because I tanked the last war and gifted the 2nd place team 45 cups which pushed them into first place, that is what I’m referring to. As explained above, just putting in an equally weak roster to rotate in the whole clan and stay low is a form of tanking and is not at all poor sportsmanship.

    Let’s also not turn this into a suggestion that I think this is some huge evil to be banned out of the game. It is not a big deal at all. It simply is my opinion that some tanking is not poor sportsmanship and some tanking is. The details matter.
    And I can agree the same.
    For us, we pushed and hit a wall. Took us 2 seasons to go back down.
    Since then, we have maintained a level that has kept us above the drop zone, but not good enough to threaten the group.

    I feel, if we could we would, now that there are rewards for failure.
    But if tanking is best for the clan, then simply ease off the throttle all week, rather than blast the first 5, then hit the brakes (or dont ramp it up first couple of wars).
    This way, nobody but yourself is adversely affected with the scoring.
    The status quo will be maintained.

    But I agree it isnt a biggie either way. Simply the latest topic of conversation. Is a shrugfest really.

  3. #53
    Forum Veteran MajorJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    Exactly. I didn’t say tanking is automatically unsportsmanlike. I said losing one war on purpose and thereby changing the final position of other clans that were actually trying to take part in a competition is poor sportsmanship. If I cause a clan to not win first place because I tanked the last war and gifted the 2nd place team 45 cups which pushed them into first place, that is what I’m referring to. As explained above, just putting in an equally weak roster to rotate in the whole clan and stay low is a form of tanking and is not at all poor sportsmanship.

    Let’s also not turn this into a suggestion that I think this is some huge evil to be banned out of the game. It is not a big deal at all. It simply is my opinion that some tanking is not poor sportsmanship and some tanking is. The details matter.
    Thanks for clearing that up and I agreed with you that tanking a war in order to help a clan would be unsportsmanlike but that is already against the TOS (win-trading).

    I was referring to to what I think most clans Masters and down would be doing for CWL and if a clan is tanking some war, they aren't doing it out of spite or to help any other clan in the league. The average every day clan only cares about the scope of their own clan and might tank a war in Masters 1 because they don't want to move up to Champs and split the clan up.

    Even if someone didn't like that a clan might throw a war not to move up, it would be impossible to ban or enforce, would need to change CWL so clans can't or don't want to do something.
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  4. #54
    Forum Veteran MajorJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    And I can agree the same.
    For us, we pushed and hit a wall. Took us 2 seasons to go back down.
    Since then, we have maintained a level that has kept us above the drop zone, but not good enough to threaten the group.

    I feel, if we could we would, now that there are rewards for failure.
    But if tanking is best for the clan, then simply ease off the throttle all week, rather than blast the first 5, then hit the brakes (or dont ramp it up first couple of wars).
    This way, nobody but yourself is adversely affected with the scoring.
    The status quo will be maintained.

    But I agree it isnt a biggie either way. Simply the latest topic of conversation. Is a shrugfest really.
    This is what we come here for, the thrill of the debate lol

    It annoys me far more that SC leaves self-match going for years than some clan throwing a war in order to maintain range.
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  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    Thanks for clearing that up and I agreed with you that tanking a war in order to help a clan would be unsportsmanlike but that is already against the TOS (win-trading).

    I was referring to to what I think most clans Masters and down would be doing for CWL and if a clan is tanking some war, they aren't doing it out of spite or to help any other clan in the league. The average every day clan only cares about the scope of their own clan and might tank a war in Masters 1 because they don't want to move up to Champs and split the clan up.

    Even if someone didn't like that a clan might throw a war not to move up, it would be impossible to ban or enforce, would need to change CWL so clans can't or don't want to do something.
    Maybe I failed to clear it up lol. Tanking to help another clan is against the terms of service and worthy of a ban. Tanking one war and thus causing a clan to jump over another, unintentionally, is poor sportsmanship. I don’t think it is worthy of a ban. I do think it is poor sportsmanship. Perhaps it comes from a life of taking part in other competitions where such conduct would be considered poor sportsmanship. You don’t give your opponent 8 foot puts just because you are already out of the competition. You continue to play it straight because others are still in.
    Contact SC here. Click here to see how trophies are calculated. I'm still thinking starting the "new" legends at Legends2 at 5500 and having Legends3 be for 5000-5499 would be good (with season resets to 5000 and 5500 depending on your trophies at season end) but overall I LOVE the Legends change. Thanks SC.

  6. #56
    Forum Veteran MajorJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    Maybe I failed to clear it up lol. Tanking to help another clan is against the terms of service and worthy of a ban. Tanking one war and thus causing a clan to jump over another, unintentionally, is poor sportsmanship. I don’t think it is worthy of a ban. I do think it is poor sportsmanship. Perhaps it comes from a life of taking part in other competitions where such conduct would be considered poor sportsmanship. You don’t give your opponent 8 foot puts just because you are already out of the competition. You continue to play it straight because others are still in.
    To me CWL is more akin to clan games, a tool for growth for everyone in the clan. If some clan tanked a war in our CWL, I would probably not even notice. In a mixed TH roster, CWL is part luck so everyone would end up where they are anyways so it only amounts to a 5 medal loss anyways.

    I dunno why you keep calling this a competition when the Denver Broncos can go face off against 3rd graders if they want?

    I think CWL is only competitive if you have an all TH12 roster and below that is just farming. It's still good to win wars for the extra bonuses and the way I would do CWL is probably the same as everyone else here. It's just like whatever really cause if you have some TH12's you can just reseed in another clan to whatever tier you want anyways.

    I just don't care if a clan were to tank a war if it were part of their strategy, we discussed tanking a war too but ended up with everyone attacking to test themselves. How could I say it would be bad sportsmanship if I might do it too?

    Maybe I just have no morals lol
    Last edited by MajorJohnson; July 16th, 2019 at 12:44 AM.
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  7. #57
    Forum Elder Yachi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tosti111 View Post
    You obviously didn't read the entire thread before responding. I don't believe anyone said tanking in and of itself is unsportsmanlike. What was said several times and quite clearly was that tanking in a way that only rewards one clan the extra wins is unsportsmanlike. Feel free to tank all you like otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    Exactly. I didnít say tanking is automatically unsportsmanlike. I said losing one war on purpose and thereby changing the final position of other clans that were actually trying to take part in a competition is poor sportsmanship. If I cause a clan to not win first place because I tanked the last war and gifted the 2nd place team 45 cups which pushed them into first place, that is what Iím referring to. As explained above, just putting in an equally weak roster to rotate in the whole clan and stay low is a form of tanking and is not at all poor sportsmanship.

    Letís also not turn this into a suggestion that I think this is some huge evil to be banned out of the game. It is not a big deal at all. It simply is my opinion that some tanking is not poor sportsmanship and some tanking is. The details matter.
    I understand where you guys are coming from, just a difference in opinion is all. The goal in optimal tanking is to stay in one league below what you are capable of achieving, and the best outcome is to be placed in 2nd spot, top in the league to reap maximum benefits, but not get promoted.

    In the beginning of the season, you won't know how strong or how skilful other teams are, so you have to field your best roster and assess the situation after the first few rounds before deciding what to do. If you tank every match, there is a risk of not being able to get the 2nd spot, and even worse, a risk of getting demoted if the last few clans are the tougher ones. Why take all that risk? Go full force right from the beginning so that you are in a better position to make adjustments later, which may appear to be poor sportsmanship only when your last few rounds are true contenders for getting promoted, but it's just simply playing optimally.

    I'm certainly not so noble as to consider the well-being of other clans, but choose to focus on my own clan's interest. It is not like we deliberately made it such that top contender to get promoted lost their chance due to our tanking, it could simply be a situation whereby it was unfortunate match placement. I agree to deliberately mess with one's chances of getting promoted is unsportsmanlike, but my point was as long as we chose to tank optimally, it will affect one team or the other.


  8. #58
    Forum Veteran MajorJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yachi View Post
    I understand where you guys are coming from, just a difference in opinion is all. The goal in optimal tanking is to stay in one league below what you are capable of achieving, and the best outcome is to be placed in 2nd spot, top in the league to reap maximum benefits, but not get promoted.

    In the beginning of the season, you won't know how strong or how skilful other teams are, so you have to field your best roster and assess the situation after the first few rounds before deciding what to do. If you tank every match, there is a risk of not being able to get the 2nd spot, and even worse, a risk of getting demoted if the last few clans are the tougher ones. Why take all that risk? Go full force right from the beginning so that you are in a better position to make adjustments later, which may appear to be poor sportsmanship only when your last few rounds are true contenders for getting promoted, but it's just simply playing optimally.

    I'm certainly not so noble as to consider the well-being of other clans, but choose to focus on my own clan's interest. It is not like we deliberately made it such that top contender to get promoted lost their chance due to our tanking, it could simply be a situation whereby it was unfortunate match placement. I agree to deliberately mess with one's chances of getting promoted is unsportsmanlike, but my point was as long as we chose to tank optimally, it will affect one team or the other.
    Actually once you match in CWL you can just search your clan on clashofstats and go to the clan war leagues tab and you can see the total rosters of every clan. Depending on what you match, you can get a good idea of what CWL will look like overall with some slight variations depending on how CWL progresses.

    We can agree that tanking in order to help another clan in the league is unsportsmanlike because the other clans want to move up.

    What about if you might not want to move up though? In our last CWL we were in that position and I let the clan do their thing and we were promoted but wouldn't have been angry if we weren't. Even still we ran a weaker against the 2nd place clan and basically let them win as a result and then more of the clan chose to move up and everyone made attacks which pushed us to first despite the loss.

    The rewards are actually quite good, even if some clans might tank a war in order not to move up, the clan that would move up might end up with more medals overall than the one that tanked.

    From a medal perspective a clan that would tank wars in a mixed roster would be fairly low, except maybe in Masters 1. You do the most medals when the most people are able to score 8 stars, and win wars for extra bonuses. Scoring the most medals in CWL may mean sacrificing a war or two in order to let lower players get in enough wars to get their 8. It is an act of balance in order to achieve the most medals and a little luck.

    If you are lucky enough to be on top, you have a choice to move up or not when you could potentially end up 7th and if everyone gets their 8 stars that you get as much as 2nd in the league below, but with less bonuses. You could end up winning a couple wars in the higher league, or lose more wars in the lower league so even deciding whether you want to move up is 50/50.

    Would I be mad if some clan tanked some war deliberately in order to not move up in leagues with a mixed roster?

    No, if a clan wants to do it then go for it.

    In current meta you would fight with a weaker roster and rotate in order to maximize stars, there is no guarantee that if you don't move up that you will do better than if you do.
    Last edited by MajorJohnson; July 16th, 2019 at 05:22 AM.
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    To me CWL is more akin to clan games, a tool for growth for everyone in the clan. If some clan tanked a war in our CWL, I would probably not even notice. In a mixed TH roster, CWL is part luck so everyone would end up where they are anyways so it only amounts to a 5 medal loss anyways.

    I dunno why you keep calling this a competition when the Denver Broncos can go face off against 3rd graders if they want?

    I think CWL is only competitive if you have an all TH12 roster and below that is just farming. It's still good to win wars for the extra bonuses and the way I would do CWL is probably the same as everyone else here. It's just like whatever really cause if you have some TH12's you can just reseed in another clan to whatever tier you want anyways.

    I just don't care if a clan were to tank a war if it were part of their strategy, we discussed tanking a war too but ended up with everyone attacking to test themselves. How could I say it would be bad sportsmanship if I might do it too?

    Maybe I just have no morals lol

    Actually mate, the way you do CWL may appear to be the same as everyone else, but it probably isnt.
    This season is further proof that your clan has the ability to move up at will, and has the luxury of making that decision, dependant on the mood of the members.

    For many tho, they are in the middle tiers or lower simply because that is as far as they can get.

    Farming has become as standard of a word as Engineering, now that the format has been going a while, but it is really the same. People are manipulating the system for whatever benefits it brings to the clan, just the same as manipulated rosters in regular war.

    Nothing bad about it, people choose what they wish to do.
    But not everybody is doing it, nor is in a position to do so, without bailing first.
    Last edited by joshsgrandad; July 16th, 2019 at 10:22 AM.

  10. #60
    Forum Veteran MajorJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    Actually mate, the way you do CWL may appear to be the same as everyone else, but it probably isnt.
    This season is further proof that your clan has the ability to move up at will, and has the luxury of making that decision, dependant on the mood of the members.

    For many tho, they are in the middle tiers or lower simply because that is as far as they can get.

    Farming has become as standard of a word as Engineering, now that the format has been going a while, but it is really the same. People are manipulating the system for whatever benefits it brings to the clan, just the same as manipulated rosters in regular war.

    Nothing bad about it, people choose what they wish to do.
    But not everybody is doing it, nor is in a position to do so, without bailing first.
    Even viewing it as a farming, or manipulating at will, there is still luck involved and will usually be mid tier. I expected to be demoted last CWL but when we matched and I looked over the total rosters, I realized we could win all wars and come first.

    I visited a friends clan in the same league and they were facing a clan much bigger than we could do, and I think it might have been Tosti that mentioned they were in Crystal 1 and also facing a larger clan than we had.

    The way I view CWL might be different but I would recommend clans to view it as farming for your sanity. Focus on members getting their 8 stars and to use all their attacks, don't sweat the egg attacks.

    Our low CWL is probably where it would really differ from other clans because for the most medals you take a very weak roster and fight in a league much higher than you are capable of. In this case you are the whipping boy and probably get demoted, but as long as majority get their 8 stars, still walk away with more than competing at a lower league.

    "engineering" or "farming" in CWL is beneficial to all other clans in the CWL group.
    Last edited by MajorJohnson; July 16th, 2019 at 06:19 PM.
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