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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Legend League: why not allow players to choose how many attacks per day?

  1. #31
    Super Member Bbeehhaappyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darian[Supercell] View Post
    Allowing a variable number of attacks makes the playing field uneven/unfair. If you can set the number of attacks to 4 instead of 8, does that mean you only take 4 defenses? If so, that means you'll have less trophy loss than someone who takes 8 defenses. If the number of defenses remains at 8 no matter how many attacks you set, then you'll almost always be losing trophies.

    The number of attacks is the same for everyone for a specific reason: to give everyone in the Legend League the same fair chance at climbing the trophy ladder as everyone else.

    The top ranks of Legend League should be about the quality of attacks/defenses...not the quantity.
    Very well Explained and how I see not first time. If after this they again don't understand it, then I don't know.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darian[Supercell] View Post
    If you can set the number of attacks to 4 instead of 8, does that mean you only take 4 defenses? If so, that means you'll have less trophy loss than someone who takes 8 defenses.
    But the person taking 4 defences would only be making 4 attacks so would gain less trophies. Choosing to do less attacks would mean you would move more slowly up and down the league but shouldn't give you an advantage to your final position in the league.

    i.e. If you were on average getting 5 more trophies per attack than per defence then a 8 attack player would have +40 for the day where as the 4 attack player would only have +20. And the opposite if you were losing an average of 5 per attack. Eventually you get to your skill level and it would theoretically average out at 0 trophies difference between attacks and defences. 0 times 4 is the same as 0 times 8.

    Where it could be an advantage is if you take many attacks early in the season to climb rapidly and then goto a low number of attacks to slow down how quickly you lose the trophies again but you could possible solve that by forcing players to stick to the same attack amount for the entire season.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darian[Supercell] View Post
    Allowing a variable number of attacks makes the playing field uneven/unfair. If you can set the number of attacks to 4 instead of 8, does that mean you only take 4 defenses? If so, that means you'll have less trophy loss than someone who takes 8 defenses. If the number of defenses remains at 8 no matter how many attacks you set, then you'll almost always be losing trophies.

    The number of attacks is the same for everyone for a specific reason: to give everyone in the Legend League the same fair chance at climbing the trophy ladder as everyone else.

    The top ranks of Legend League should be about the quality of attacks/defenses...not the quantity.
    Builder hall has a similar setup regarding cup pushing. 1:1 attack:defense. But allows any number of attacks for each person. Some days i attack 3 times. Some cg days i attack many many times. I always rise to and stay around the same cup lvl. Always to the lvl where i meet my equals in skill. As long as its a 1:1 attack to defense.

    When someone rises to where on average they lose as many cups as they gain every attack, more attacking doesnt help them push. But it might be more fun.

    EDIT: on further discussion this would create slight advantage for any of the top 10 players or so that choose to do more attacks. I withdraw my support for more attacking. Altho i hope there is some idea in the future for some additional legend attacks in some form that doesnt take away from the skill based system now in place. Global friendly challenges maybe?
    Last edited by GameTheory; June 25th, 2019 at 04:37 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traimus View Post
    But the person taking 4 defences would only be making 4 attacks so would gain less trophies. Choosing to do less attacks would mean you would move more slowly up and down the league but shouldn't give you an advantage to your final position in the league.

    i.e. If you were on average getting 5 more trophies per attack than per defence then a 8 attack player would have +40 for the day where as the 4 attack player would only have +20. And the opposite if you were losing an average of 5 per attack. Eventually you get to your skill level and it would theoretically average out at 0 trophies difference between attacks and defences. 0 times 4 is the same as 0 times 8.

    Where it could be an advantage is if you take many attacks early in the season to climb rapidly and then goto a low number of attacks to slow down how quickly you lose the trophies again but you could possible solve that by forcing players to stick to the same attack amount for the entire season.
    In your example doing more attacks is only an advantage the first day if u are better than average. The next day u are facing others that attacked more and had similar cup gains. Youll only have cup gains if u are better than them. This "advantage" is only if u would end up at the top of cups anyway.

  5. #35
    New Bloke/Chick Troyanela's Avatar
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    Don't just focus on yourself, there are so many people who can do easily 8 attacks/day. As for myself, I can do 8 attacks without any (Training boosting) in half a day, the whole evening can be left with no attacks so I have to jump into the another account to progress/work.

    As was mentioned, Supercell ( Coc ) team knows the statistics of how many attacks people can do mostly per day. Don't judge it, let it progress it. I know & believe it might be changed/upgraded a bit with Attacks, etc if it's needed.
    But you can't just lower attacks if someone can't do all of them mean while 70% can do maybe 10+, since there a lot of people who doesn't play for fun, but it's their job to play as well. ( Youtubers, content creators, not to mention CWL, tournaments, etc ).

    As it is right now - I love it. Of course, there can be some more stuff to work on. ( Maybe more balancing of facing new TH12 players, med tier levels & maxed out ones, but I think later in the season it will be balanced, since maxed ones will go to TOP, mean while new ones, med ones can stay in a regular state while progressing their account/base. ).

    I think it's hard to balance to everyone's choice to attack as much as THEY can/day. But, they know what they're doing, they have the stats, info, feedback and I hope, think in a time they will change to benefit everyone.

    And if simply you can't play even couple of hours, then just go to Titan's League, especially if you're almost maxed and you don't need the loot, because right now Legend League is basically being the best, wanting to learn the game, attacks, defense, getting A LOT of loot and just... Playing A LOT day after day after day.

    Enjoy what you have. ^^
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  6. #36
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    Canít we all just be happy that the clouds were fixed and legend league is tolerable now. I mean jeez itís 30 minutes out of your busy life to do 8 attacks. I for one love not having to stare at clouds for an hour for 1 base all whilst my training boost is being wasted. Well done supercell and thank you for fixing legend leagues even if people are still unhappy. After all you canít please everyone .

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darian[Supercell] View Post
    Allowing a variable number of attacks makes the playing field uneven/unfair. If you can set the number of attacks to 4 instead of 8, does that mean you only take 4 defenses? If so, that means you'll have less trophy loss than someone who takes 8 defenses. If the number of defenses remains at 8 no matter how many attacks you set, then you'll almost always be losing trophies.

    The number of attacks is the same for everyone for a specific reason: to give everyone in the Legend League the same fair chance at climbing the trophy ladder as everyone else.

    The top ranks of Legend League should be about the quality of attacks/defenses...not the quantity.
    Maybe we can choose the no. of attacks, but at least 8 per day? So if we ought to attack more, we can choose whatever no. of attack we want more than 8 (maybe with a max of 20 per day).

    However, some tweaks might be needed if this would be implemented. The net trophy gain or loss should be calculated in each end of a league day, to avoid people attack a lot to get a new pb.

    And yes, attacking still requires quality than quantity. You can choose to attack more than 8x, but at your own risk that you'll also need to defend more. I don't think that people who attack more will be at the top of the leaderboards in a season. Those who does 8x quality attacks will potentially more viable to secure a spot on the top of the leaderboards.

  8. #38
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    In order to offer a variable number of attacks, for the sake of fairness the game would have to be changed to ensure that you also received the same (or almost the same) number of defenses as you do attacks. It's easy to diagram out how this would work conceptually but it seems like it's not super close to how it's implemented, so I don't expect it to be changed to this any time soon.

    How I would design it if I were the designer is this: instead of preallocating X targets at the beginning of each legends day, the game uses a dynamic matchmaker, and when you hit attack, the matchmaker provides a base for you to attack, similarly to how the old system works. Each account in legends takes up to X defenses per day, and this allows the matchmaker to have a pool of defenders right away at the beginning of the day. When someone hits attack for the X+Yth time, it causes their base to be added into the defense pool an X+Yth time. When the matchmaker hands out bases to be attacked, it prioritizes bases that attack more than X times.

    So for example, if I attack 15 times in one day, I take 14 or 15 defenses. If I attack 30 times, I take 29 or 30 defenses.

    Other than that, the matchmaker hands out defenses evenly, so if X is 8, then of all the bases that attack 8 times per day, there won't be some bases that take 8 defenses and other bases that take 1 defense based on random chance like we have now; instead they'll all take approximately the same number of defenses, and that number will depend on how many total attacks there are. The matchmaker smooths things out. A side effect of this is that casuals get attacked less than hardcore people who exceed 8 attacks.

    So all that describes how I think a dynamic attack system would need to work to be fair. That doesn't answer the original question, though: should the game be made to do that?

    One of the big changes with OBS is that people who play the game for 16 hours a day don't have a huge advantage any more. If I'm the most skilled player in the world and can only make 8 attacks per day, then under the 8 attack system, I have a shot at #1. Under a variable system like the one I proposed, in order to hit #1 you'd have to be very skilled and also have a ton of time available in order to make 50 attacks a day or whatever.

    Seems like people who were previously at 6k+ might think that's a better system. But it also seems like giving skilled players who don't have a lot of time a chance at winning, might have been a design goal.

  9.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #39
    Darian[Supercell]'s Avatar
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    Ultimately, our objective is making a fair and level playing field for everyone. If we add more attacks it will be the same number for everyone. With that, we are looking at the data of how players are attacking and looking at how many attacks are being used.
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  10. #40
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    I dont have a dog in this fight. But i feel the need to address misconceptions. I feel like there is a false assumption being carried over from the old legend league. More attacks was an advantage. But it wouldnt have been if everyone took a defense for every attack. Within reason there may still need to be a cap to keep most active attackers under 10x as many attacks as least active since the cup gain isnt based on opponents cup lvl. The only advantage is first day and slightly 2nd day. As long as others can match those number of attacks over the rest of the season it will even out and everyone will fall into the cup range they belong in.

    The perfect example is builder hall. If you do more attacks does that give you an advantage in pushing there?

    I should add that im 100% for skill based ranking. Adamantly.

    To prove my point im going to join legend league late in about 7 days. Im am confident i will have no problem moving to cup range i belong in (despite using fewer attacks than everyone else).

    Sc can confirm the range of attacks that can be available to people by looking at how many days in legend it takes for almost everyone to start averaging a 0 cup gain after 8 attacks and 8 defenses.

    EDIT: while true for almost all of legend, for the very very top this would create an advantage. I withdraw my support for uneven number of attacking.
    Last edited by GameTheory; June 25th, 2019 at 04:00 PM.

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