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Thread: Should sc make it easier to get OTTO

  1. #101
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    Supercell absolutely should not make max OTTO easier to obtain. For the first two years, the community complained bitterly about the builder base. Chief among the complaints was that it did nothing for the main base. Result: many people in the Clash community refused to do anything with their builder base.

    I'm not saying that those players should be penalized per se, but there is a consequence to ignoring content like the builder base. If your builder base has a thick collection of dust coating everything, now is the time to gear up.

  2. #102
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    This has been a fascinating conversation but I think we are mostly missing the point of the original question: how long should otto take to unlock, starting from scratch, from a game design perspective?

    For context, I think you can probably get the 5th builder FTP around TH8 or TH9, based on pushing to champs and getting a pile of achievement gems. Depending on how you play the game that could be pretty quick (under 6 months).

    Depending on if you play the main base, builder base or both as a maxer, I think you'll be able to gear up the mortar in as early as 3 months or as late as 2 years into your clash life.

    I'm OK with otto coming after the 5th builder. But since a builder is for building, it's best for him to come before you run out of things to build. Otto is not end game content.

    My strategic rushing experience shows that it's possible to get to a 40/40 TH10 in something like 9 months (with some lab and def rushed, and some maxed.) Others have claimed in this thread that this is the same general time frame for an otto rush from scratch, if you do it right.

    So maybe 9 months if you're on an alt and you know what you're doing, and 2 years if it's your first account? Does that seem like a good target time frame from a game design perspective?

    After mulling all that over, I'm willing to concede that the mega tesla, cannon cart and bm prereqs for otto are not completely unreasonable. I think you could still get the flavor goals, and not change the end result all that much, if you required levels 8, 16 and 25 instead of 9. 18 and 30.

    It's also important to keep in mind that a new account started from scratch knows about the otto requirements up front, and so will be taking the opportunity to upgrade their carts, bm and mega tesla along the way. Maybe instead of dumping 100 million elixir into dropships, the player will put that into the BM instead.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by littledoctor View Post
    This has been a fascinating conversation but I think we are mostly missing the point of the original question: how long should otto take to unlock, starting from scratch, from a game design perspective?

    For context, I think you can probably get the 5th builder FTP around TH8 or TH9, based on pushing to champs and getting a pile of achievement gems. Depending on how you play the game that could be pretty quick (under 6 months).

    Depending on if you play the main base, builder base or both as a maxer, I think you'll be able to gear up the mortar in as early as 3 months or as late as 2 years into your clash life.

    I'm OK with otto coming after the 5th builder. But since a builder is for building, it's best for him to come before you run out of things to build. Otto is not end game content.

    My strategic rushing experience shows that it's possible to get to a 40/40 TH10 in something like 9 months (with some lab and def rushed, and some maxed.) Others have claimed in this thread that this is the same general time frame for an otto rush from scratch, if you do it right.

    So maybe 9 months if you're on an alt and you know what you're doing, and 2 years if it's your first account? Does that seem like a good target time frame from a game design perspective?

    After mulling all that over, I'm willing to concede that the mega tesla, cannon cart and bm prereqs for otto are not completely unreasonable. I think you could still get the flavor goals, and not change the end result all that much, if you required levels 8, 16 and 25 instead of 9. 18 and 30.

    It's also important to keep in mind that a new account started from scratch knows about the otto requirements up front, and so will be taking the opportunity to upgrade their carts, bm and mega tesla along the way. Maybe instead of dumping 100 million elixir into dropships, the player will put that into the BM instead.
    Good points.

    Also, the presence of OTTO encourage people to rush on Builder Base, which is the correct way to get ahead fast.

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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by spark09 View Post
    Yes, exactly. And why do you think we shouldn't complain. The requirement of bb is like telling a science student that if you do PhD in economics, government will give you free house. The government is not understanding that economics is not his field. It rather gives the augment that it's his fault as he didn't pay attention to every aspect of knowledge. I think the whining is correct to some extent. Plus we r not saying that give away the sixth just like that. We are saying that the conditions are way too difficult.

    You want to promote economics, fine, I will study the high school level economics but pls don't ask me to do PhD. (Max bm&#128562
    I think you shouldn't complain because the BB was effortless. We were playing a game that took 3 years (at the time) of keeping all 5 builders busy non-stop to get to the max. It involved raiding many times per day, nexting through countless bases or sitting in the clouds (depending on whether you farmed in low or high trophies), and being forced to wait for potentially long periods of time for your army and heroes to regenerate before you could raid again.

    Then the level 5 builder base came out. For the first few levels of base your army was done as soon as the previous raid was over. Once you got to level 4 or 5 you had to wait a minute or two for the army to finish (The Battle Machine took a bit longer which was annoying until they fixed it recently). Raids were quick, no time was spent nexting or sitting in the clouds, and you could only get 3 wins a day so you couldn't spend a lot of time in BB even though many of us liked it enough to want to.

    The point is that BB was a refreshingly quick change of pace. It was extremely easy to fit into your play time because there was already so much waiting in the main base (mainly due to waiting for your armies to build) and it was fun to have such quick and easy raids. People that like CoC probably like building bases. BB gave us more of that and it was quick and easy as well.

    When BB came out there seemed to be this club of people that thought it was cool to complain about it and ignore it rather than simply enjoy it. One of the biggest problems with CoC was (and still is) all the waiting around. All 5 of my builders and my research lab are busy for the next 5 days. I can (and will) fill my storages, but after that I am just sitting around and waiting to be allowed to play again. Luckily the BB is there for me every day. Every day I can earn some more loot and the buildings take less time to upgrade as well. Fighting against the builder base like it was some kind of terrible thing was always ridiculous and made no sense. It is basically like making a second account, but it is not the exact same game so it isn't as predictable and it doesn't require nearly so much effort to level it up.

    The Otto change finally gave the people in the complaining club a reason to get over their silly prejudice and just play it. The BB wasn't added to whine about. It was added to play. And I don't buy the I-don't-have-time excuse because it takes almost no time to play. That was the design of the BB. Too be quick and easy. If you have time for CoC then you have time to play BB when CoC isn't available.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by littledoctor View Post
    Most of the max BH8s, perhaps, but (perhaps this is typical mind fallacy) since it is ideal to rush to BH8 (now BH9) and then backfill, I believe there are a huge number of Bh8 (now BH9) players who rushed and did not complete the backfill process, so I don't think we can say that most of them had level 25 BM. Most of them over 4k trophies, perhaps. Down at 3k I don't see many level 25 BM.

    Optimizing players like me left the BM at 5 because that's where you get the biggest jump in capability, and beyond that, it's better to have a max troop or two.



    I can't speak for others, but for me, what brings the strongest negative emotions is losing, and when I play multiplayer clash, I hardly ever lose, and when I do, there is still some benefit (I gain loot). When I lose in BB, it is a complete loss - there is no gain, no benefit, and now it's harder to achieve the goal because of lost boost time. In BB, sometimes I set a fairly small goal (such as get my star for the daily quest) and then waste 15+ minutes failing to achieve that goal over and over. Intensely negative. (I elaborated in an earlier post, but this has happened to me when I was bh4 below 1000 trophies and matching bh6+, and then again when I was early bh5 with bh4 barch matching bh5s with good mortar placement around 1500.)

    My bh9 at 50 trophies has never caused me to experience those emotions, and I was able to do all the gear ups on my main base using collector income. For the longest time I was stuck at 4m/4m in storages because I'd just log in once a day to run the clock tower and clear trees for the gems.
    I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that most BH8's are maxed because there was plenty of time to max. All you had to do was get your 3 wins a day and you would probably be maxed by the time BH9 came out. There would be exceptions such as people that were not playing CoC at the time the BB came out and people that stayed at extremely low trophy levels for BB (though anyone that was playing since day 1 should have been able to stay above 3000 if they simply played the BB every day).

    I know there are some people that only did BB during clan games, but those people were always short-sighted and hopefully (for all their sakes) a minority of the population. BB is a more competitive game than CoC and was capped at 3 wins a day so it was rather obvious that getting those 3 wins each day was a good idea.

    I agree that losing isn't fun. When BB first came out I was amazed how many people would watch their opponents raid and then get upset that X or Y happened. The least emotional way to play BB is to log in, do your raid, and then close the game. Don't watch whether you won or lost just leave and come back a few minutes later when the army is built and you can raid again. The break gives you a chance to become less invested in whether you won or lost. Obviously this doesn't work if you are on a clock tower boost, but I try to use my clock tower boosts every 7 hours whether my attacks are ready or not (after all, the clock tower gives loot from collectors and speeds up upgrades so it is best to maximize its efficiency).

    And when you say you had 4m/4m resources and just logged in once a day to use the clock tower and collect gems are you saying that you have a fully maxed BH8 or are you saying you got a base up to BH8 with max storages, filled those storages, and then still didn't bother to upgrade anything even though the loot was just getting throw away? That would be so wasteful I can't imagine doing so would be more fun than upgrading something.

    And if nothing else, when you log into an unmaxed base to use the clock tower and collect gems you could do single raid since you are already there and it only takes 1 to 2 minutes and then log out as soon as it finishes just for a chance at extra loot. If you are worried your opponent may finish first and you will be greeted with the knowledge that you lost (which would sour your mood), then do your raid and close the game as soon as you get the end raid screen. Don't even go back to your own village. That way you won't see whether you won or lost and it won't affect your mood. You'll just get a chance at loot and the pleasure of a quick raid.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    And when you say you had 4m/4m resources and just logged in once a day to use the clock tower and collect gems are you saying that you have a fully maxed BH8 or are you saying you got a base up to BH8 with max storages, filled those storages, and then still didn't bother to upgrade anything even though the loot was just getting throw away? That would be so wasteful I can't imagine doing so would be more fun than upgrading something.
    I let it accumulate so that I'd have full storages whenever BH9 arrived. I wanted a perfect art project account where only what was helpful was upgraded. I maxed storages, collectors/mines/gem mine, and clock tower, and upgraded a single cannon, archer tower and mortar to the levels needed to perform the main base gear-ups.

    When we got the otto sneak peek, I started upgrading the barracks, star lab and bm. Last mine is upgrading now; then the next thing to upgrade will be the second elixir storage; then I'll accumulate enough elixir to do the next cart upgrade and bring my elixir down to 0, then use my saved rune of elixir, then start a gold storage, in order to get those upgrades taken care of when I still have the 20% discount this month.

    I log into 5-15 accounts daily. I don't need to attack with this one too.
    Last edited by littledoctor; 3 Weeks Ago at 07:05 PM.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by littledoctor View Post
    I log into 5-15 accounts daily.
    That sounds like a career. I wish you well.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klavious View Post
    That sounds like a career. I wish you well.
    Thanks. Minimizing builder base activity makes it lots more doable.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by littledoctor View Post
    It's also important to keep in mind that a new account started from scratch knows about the otto requirements up front, and so will be taking the opportunity to upgrade their carts, bm and mega tesla along the way. Maybe instead of dumping 100 million elixir into dropships, the player will put that into the BM instead.
    carts alone cant be a troop combo, it needs another troop to work. thus upgrading bdrag will get you to higher loot brackets & otto quicker than upgrading any other multiple troop combo army.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by arpithmania View Post
    carts alone cant be a troop combo, it needs another troop to work. thus upgrading bdrag will get you to higher loot brackets & otto quicker than upgrading any other multiple troop combo army.
    After doing CCs for OTTO, it would make sense to do either RBs or SPs. Bart and PEKKA Carts are both solid starts right now. Or, you can be stubborn, and upgrade your Minion Drops like me.
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