Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Toggleable troop attack mode

  1. #1
    New Bloke/Chick
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    49

    Toggleable troop attack mode

    Ok, so here's a number of issues I'll try to address with this suggestion:

    - The Meta-syndrome
    - The lack of flexibility at competitive levels
    - The burden of mechanical novelties


    The Meta-syndrome

    Anyone who's played this game for any extended period especially at higher TH levels will know that attack strategies have a tendency to converge towards very few setups, which are then relayed from the top competing clans and down.

    This in itself isn't an issue nor is it surprising given the size of the community and the competitiveness at the top. What is however an issue is the number and range of the Meta-tactics. The following suggestion is an attempt to increase the number of possible successful strategies and to widen the usage of troop types.


    The lack of flexibility

    Most games that you see played as an e-sport are fundamentally quite simple, while allowing for a huge amount of flexibility (I'm looking at you cs:go, dota etc). Games are fun to play and watch if they're easy to learn but difficult to really master. CoC is no exception here. And while I do believe there's some amount of flexibility involved in attacking other bases I also believe there's potential for a lot more within the framework.

    An increase in mechanical flexibility would potentially give more variation in play styles, make individual competitive abilities more obvious and hopefully also give the game more longevity. The suggestion aims at shifting focus from a game of numbers to a game of clever use of game mechanics.


    The burden of mechanical novelties

    This issue holds a self-contradiction that should be apparent after reading. Also it should be noted beforehand that I have no insight into the size or work methods of the developer staff, so bear with me.

    When you look around this sub forum on the suggestions being raised, very very few of them actually revolves around the main thing that players do in CoC: attack other bases. Most suggestions fall into the QoL or cosmetic pile, which is great but doesn't really cater to the two aforementioned issues.

    The state of the game updates right now and in the immediate future is at a place where there's new unit levels once or twice every year and game changing mechanics once every 1-2 year (mostly new TH/BH). This isn't a complaint, but a mere statement of how the developers choose to prioritize.

    What could be interesting and address the issues of an inflexible game going stale, would be to alter the game mechanics that are already in place. That is, in addition to coming up with new troops, structures etc. This is essentially where the suggestion takes off: make something new with something that's already there.

    Right, onwards with the actual suggestion


    Toggleable troop attack mode

    We already have a vague outline of toggleability in the game right now (think GW and various defense structures). This is something that adds a lot to the attack and defense strategies.

    What this suggestion does, is to take this toggleability and apply it to all troops. This could for example be done, by implementing different attack modes. For convenience I dub these: defensive, default and offensive modes.

    There's a range of troop parameters that could be either lowered or raised to suit a more defensive or offensive use of a troop type, namely: Movement speed, attack speed, range, dps and hitpoints. For example you could have a defensive mode that'd sacrifice movement and attack speed for more hitpoints and vice versa for offensive. This toggle would apply to all troops of that type in the stack and be reset to default after an attack finishes.

    For example you could have a toggle for the witch between dps and hitpoints vs amount of skeletons or you could have a toggle for the bowler between triple bounce vs hitpoints or you could have miners toggle between time above ground vs dps etc.

    You could play extremely aggressive tactics with the risk of failing or you could play defensively with higher chance of success. The possibilities with a toggleable attack mode would be vast and much more varied than the current static troop system.


    That's basically it, here's a rough list of things to consider:

    - The toggle would have to be implemented for CC troops as well.
    - Whether this system is feasible without also being able to toggle different modes for defensive structures is an open question.
    - It would require a massive balancing effort if the goal of more and more varied Meta-tactics are to be achieved.
    - It would require a massive balancing effort for the different troop types to still have their uniqueness intact (think archer vs wizard or dragon vs electrodragon or giant vs golem).
    - The method of obtaining different attack modes besides default could be either by troop unlocking (barracks level) or by a research system in the lab (TH level).
    - The defensive and offensive modes could have a resource cost attached to it on use.


    Thanks for reading, hope it was somewhat clear, sorry for the poor English and clash on!
    Last edited by Munitor; 4 Weeks Ago at 03:42 PM.

  2. #2
    Millennial Club Luicetarro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,163
    Hm, while I like variety and chosing an option, the idea of altering stats would create the opposite, I'm afraid.
    Just to take your examples, pick the witch, let her deal less dps, but summon more skeletons and add the tripple-bounce for your bowler.
    Tadaa, you just enhanced a current meta and made it stronger as it already is.

    The thing with human nature is, they will always strife to get the 'best' combination. So you will end up with a lot of unused options (who will take a bowler with higher HP, but reduced walkspeed/dps?), while others are fitting into already existing meta and pushing them overboard.
    Agreed, there would be new compositions, of course. But once those are settled, it will most likely stay the same way as right now. Exept one problem.
    Newcomer will have an even harder time to actually learn how to attack, since you just trippled the 'troops' they can chose from.

    I like the concept, I like mixing stuff and adding more depth, but I'm playing MMO since they were created and know several dozend games with 'builds', or 'enhancements', or whatever you wanna call them. And usually they boil down to a limited number of 'DO!', while most of it will end up in 'DONT!'.
    And there were more experienced teams around, trying to solve such a system - failing to create a variety - compared to our clash-team that most likely never even remotely touched such a concept, aside from ideas and their own gaming-experience.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    392
    i don't see it solving the meta tactics issue. it only provides more options for people to sift through until they find the few that work best. there's no difference in meta between the percent of players using the current bowitch and after playing with togglability the percent saying witch max skellies and bowler triple bounce is the best option

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    220
    I think is better and more practical to coding is if you can scout the 8 bases you need to attack but SC has clearly stated that they don't want a copy of the war mechanics so even a scout is not feasible they will implement something like that. If all players have the same options to attack is easier to balance, if they make something like have options with every troop to change their stats is like to make a new troop and I prefer they put they effort into new troops than that.

  5. #5
    New Bloke/Chick
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    49
    Good feedback so far and a few valid points I'll address.




    The Meta


    While I agree that no attack system regardless of complexity and/or flexibility will get rid of the meta strategies, this was never the intention of the suggestion.


    The intention was, by means of introducing a troop specialization or attack mode, to build a framework within which players could produce a wider range of meta tactics.


    This would be achieved by making sensible attack modes where the tradeoff between troop parameters are significant and meaningful within the defensive/offensive paradigm or some such. For example, an offensive attack mode for the bowler with triple bounce would have to come with a massive reduction in attack and/or movement speed to be meaningful. A tradeoff between hitpoints and movement speed would be much less meaningful for a primarily damage dealing troop type, as someone already stated.


    I do believe that there's a balancing point somewhere between parameters that'd make different troop types equally viable in a competitive environment. There would for example not have been that many hammerdins back in D2 had it been tweaked to be much more mana intensive or some other tradeoff.




    New troop vs existing troop


    The system we have in place right now has an unfortunate tendency to make troop types completely unused or obsolete whenever there's a major overhaul of the troop parameters towards the negative. This is clearly not by ill intention, but balancing troops and their usage against each other if it's the entirety of troop parameters that's being tweaked is an extremely difficult, if not impossible, task to undertake from the developers.


    While its really exciting to follow the release of new troops and the ensuing balancing and tweaking (hi bat spell), it also has that unfortunate downside of making older troops utterly obsolete. This I think, is at the center of some of the reason behind the narrow selection of troop types being used. I mean, who has actually trained a barbarian past TH3 or so for other things than farming?


    What an attack mode allows for, is that the balancing issues between troop types could be on either of the attack modes instead of the overall troop only. For example if one of the modes of the lava hound is overused and one of the modes for the dragon underused, you make the tradeoff more steep for the lava hound mode and/or less steep for the particular attack mode of the dragon.


    The point is, that as long as some troop types and their respective attack modes aren't within eg 1% usage relative to each other in the competitive top clans (I.e. used in a meta) then you'd keep tweaking attack modes until some sort of goal of troop variety is reached. In the current system troops are generally overused or obsolete as a consequence of balancing.


    The point of just waiting around for new troops to be released is valid and I do like the excitement of trying something new. But while the game is an evolving game mechanically, it'll also, as updates progress, become a lot more difficult to come up with unique troops. Essentially, the more troops you implement, the smaller the playing field for coming up with something new becomes, because the fundamental framework (hit stuff until it's destroyed) is somewhat constant.


    This is why I think the suggestion of creating variety in play styles and strategies by means of implementing specializations in existing troops has some merit to it.




    Obtainability and learning curves


    I'm totally onboard with the point, that an attack mode system would be extremely overwhelming to the new player. There's already a lot of things to manage as a new player. Basically what I'd suggest in addition to the original, would be either of two models:


    Attack modes are unlocked gradually along with the increase in TH/barracks level, so that there's a soft introduction to the system. You'd obviously at any given time be able to use the default attack mode, which would make the other attack modes non-essential for the average player who just wants to progress a bit and hang out with friends.


    Attack modes are unlocked from a specific (and high) TH level. This would be a hard introduction, but also an introduction into the audience that is already minimaxing and coming up with the metas. It would also create much more of an incentive to rise in TH levels as opposed to the gradual introduction.




    Anyway, I think I covered some of the issues being raised. Clash on!

  6. #6
    New Bloke/Chick
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    49
    Here's a concept of how this could look in the multiplayer gui:

    att_gui_1.jpg

  7. #7
    New Bloke/Chick
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    49
    And here's a couple of ideas for actual attack modes:


    Barbarian
    +Damage taken from single target defense reduced by X proportional to Y barbarians within Z radius
    -Reduced movement speed


    Archer
    +Every 1/X shot from Archer Tower does 0 damage
    -Reduced dps


    Giant
    +Melee damage range increased by X
    -Reduced movement speed


    Wall breaker
    +Double explosion with X delay
    -Reduced hitpoints


    Balloon
    +Increased attack speed
    -Maximum of X balloons pr structure


    +Increased movement speed
    -Reduced splash range


    Wizard
    +Increased attack speed
    -Reduced hitpoints


    Healer
    +Passive splash damage around healer by X in radius of Y hitting ground and air
    -Reduced healing


    +Selfheal by X amount of target heal
    -Reduced hitpoints


    Dragon
    +Increased movement speed
    -Air sweeper push dragons X tiles further


    P.E.K.K.A
    +Retarget to same target as defense targeting troops within X radius
    -Reduced attack speed


    Baby dragon
    +Every 1/X shot from Wizard tower does 0 damage while Baby dragon has enrage
    -Reduced movement speed


    Miner
    +Surface on far side of targeted structure
    -Reduced hitpoints


    +Increased attack speed
    -Increase resubsurface delay


    Electro dragon
    +Increased attack speed
    -Reduced number of chain lightning bounces


    Minion
    +Increased attack speed by X proportional to Y minions within Z radius
    -Reduced attack range


    Hog Rider
    +Trigger Giant bombs in a radius X
    -Reduced hitpoints


    Valkyrie
    +Reduced damage taken by X-bow while attacking
    -Reduced movement speed


    Golem
    +X golemites thrown in radius Y (across walls) from golem upon death
    -Reduced golemite hitpoints


    Witch
    +Increased witch damage
    -Reduced amount of skeletons


    Lava hound
    +Lava pups prefer Air defense as targets
    -Lava hound hitpoints decreased


    Bowler
    +Rock bounce three times
    -Reduced attack speed


    Ice golem
    +Freeze in a cone in facing direction upon death
    -Reduced movement speed


    Etc etc, lots of attack modes could be implemented that add troop mechanics and thereby increase variety of troop usage.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •