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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Self-Match Clans - A loophole left unchecked

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    Forum Veteran MajorJohnson's Avatar
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    Self-Match Clans - A loophole left unchecked

    Ok, so I understand many players may not know what self-matching is or how clans do it. Within the old maxxer vs engineer debate I brought up the aspect of self-match clans in which we created an experiment to prove the theory.

    If you would like to read the entirety of the experiment it starts in this thread from page 5 to page 23:

    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...1#post12204486

    I'm a bit too lazy to rewrite everything so I will just summarize the events.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    Should people be angry about engineers? No, not really because they are playing the game at a higher degree than other clans. What really grinds my gears is that everyone complains about engineers when they should be fighting back against the self-matching clans. I fight every war and build my bases when there are clans who will match themselves over and over and only use 1 attack. You can't fight or hunt them either because they will match themselves in minutes for a guaranteed win.

    Quote Originally Posted by HonoraryGoblin View Post
    clans can match against each other more than once? so off topic sorry if clan we just faced and we both started new search at wars end we could be matched again?


    what is benefit of doing one attack? I suppose just to get the win?

    Quote Originally Posted by samratulangi View Post
    Not with the same clan, they will recreate another new clan to match themselves every time

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    I honestly have no idea what you are talking about here.

    Are you really suggesting there are a significant number of clans who split into two very similar ones in order to get a match between the two? The two would have to have fairly similar rosters to even have a, chance of doing that, and it could never be guaranteed.


    FWA only works because there are MANY such clans all searching at the exact same time

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    Significant enough to be a problem yes, NOT like FWA. last time I looked it was around 6 of the top 10 win streak clans doing this.

    They create 2 rosters with the exact same line-up top to bottom with the same TH and same troops in the winning clan and a newly formed clan, it could be all TH8 on both sides, or it could be all TH3's (seen this too).

    Then they spin in both clans at the same time guaranteeing that they will match in minutes. When war is over they delete the losing clan and move those bases to another newly formed clan and repeat the process.

    Supercell has a mechanism in place that has a cool down of approximately 2 weeks before you can match the same clan, but not players, and they subvert this by using a newly made clan each time.

    This has been a problem for YEARS and any time I bring it up people just say it does not matter, or it's like FWA or whatever. It matters alot if you have built on years of work to get to this point and there are clans above you scoring free wins and there is nothing you can do about it.

    Let's say I wanted to hunt one of these clans, even if I had the same roster I would have a 5 minute window in order to match them, and then a 50% chance to match either clan so it it basically impossible to stop them. This also happened once where a group tried to take down one of the self-matching clans in the top 10 but they matched the burner clan instead.

    You want to hear a real joke? a 120 win streak self-match clan lost his streak last week on a 0-0 tie because he forgot to attack......


    SuperCell could fix this problem by applying the cooldown to players instead of clans. Instead of not being able to match the same clan for 2-4 weeks, you should not be able to match if the opposing clan has ANY of the same PLAYERS in the same time frame. It would be a little more computationally expensive but it would only affect the self-match clans because FWA and normal clans don't have players moving clans
    .

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    That might fix it - assuming there actually is a cooldown at all, but it seems a lot of cost for something which will probably only affect single digit numbers of clans. I have to say, I'm surprised it happens at all, though I suppose with extreme rosters, it is feasible.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    I think the clans matching themselves is a problem that impacts more than just the most carefully engineered clans. It devalues all win streaks and war records. It is like the cheating account sharing player that finishes near the top of legends, it doesn't just impact the player who could have otherwise taken first place. It also impacts players like me finishing hundreds of spots lower.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    You don't need an extreme roster, just an unusual one that will guarantee you will match each other. The problem is bigger than single digit clans. If this fix would only affect these clans, that would be a success.

    A few months back I came across a clan that would self-match with 15 TH3's on each side and only use 1 attack.

    To be honest, I don't think the SC devs even know this is happening, maybe you could pass on this info to them? I could do a test and show you but it would probably be about a week.

    Quote Originally Posted by samratulangi View Post
    I believe current MM has been the best ever compared to previous iterations, why? because it give fair matches to every clan in the the middle of norm curve of warring clans till very close of the edge of the curve(more then 95%) while still able to accept a slight off&def difference).

    Selfmatch clan is abusing a loophole and can be considered wintrading, while normal engineered clans still fight the war.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    FWA and self-match clans are 2 different things.

    FWA clans choose at random who will win and who will lose for the purpose of farming, they do not affect global ranking of of any other clans and will match regular clans quite often which results in an easy win for the enemy clan.

    Self-match clans do affect rankings because if you were ranked #1000, and 100 clans above you were matching themselves for easy wins, you could be ranked #900.

    If you don't want to match other clans, you only need 2 unusual rosters that would not match anything else like for example, no clans would run 30 TH3's vs 30 TH3's, or if you have something just as obscure. I build my bases in 2's, and have unusual bases, I could do it too and then I would be truly unstoppable, no need to worry about clans trying to hunt me, no need to worry I might match a good clan, and because I match in minutes, and you match in hours, I will always climb faster than you. Just think how much of a relief it could be for me to hit that spin and not have to wonder "will this be the war that will take me down?'

    I could have done it ages ago and I could do it tomorrow if I wanted to. I love playing this game, building bases, fighting wars, seeing how far I can go. If I self-matched it would cheapen my personal achievements and make every victory feel hollow because I did not earn it and you can't take it from me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skrags View Post
    I must admit, I was unaware of the 'self matching' clans that Major and Sam have posted about in this thread.
    It's certainly an interesting development.
    Has this been going on a long time, or was the retirement of the Martians a catalyst for the new breed of Glory Hunters?

    Quote Originally Posted by samratulangi View Post
    This is started when SC make the MM very strict at the end of Feb 2018, so they have difficulty getting match, then they started self match, and going on till now

    Quote Originally Posted by littledoctor View Post
    You know, I don't care about win streaks, but this thread honestly tempts me into attempting to self match in order to level up our low clan with a minimal amount of work.

    I'm guessing though that it would take more work to do than to just do a bunch of regular wars, mostly because the xp from beating a th3 would be minimal.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    Actually that reminds me of a post I came across during last CWL where the guy basically said "During CWL I just self-match because of the low pool for some easy wins. I've been making the names of the clans to make a message in my war log, last time I did "Supercells" "Matchmaker is a" "Freaking joke".

    Not sure I could find the original post, and name and shame so I'm just paraphrasing.


    How about we prove this is possible during CWL? I have a couple clans just sitting idle. Each person would make a couple TH3's for 30-40 bases in total and run 15-20v wars and try to match each other a few times.

    I bet I could beat you TH3, mano a mano.

    Let's go

    Quote Originally Posted by littledoctor View Post
    That would be awesome, but cwl week is kind of busy for me...

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    If we had a bunch of people with some lead time it could be pretty easy to do, takes maybe 15 minutes to make one or two TH3s and could be done anytime. One clan stays put, second clan moves to a new clan once matched, attacks wouldn't matter so second clan would have 47 hours to move to the next clan which takes only 1 minute.

    There is maybe 10 people in this thread and I think I could rustle up some volunteers too.

    CWL is 7 days from now, plus 2 day war cool down is 9 days.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    I have a th3 or 2, or 3 even, if you want to give it a go. Just give a post code so I can pop it in the sat nav.
    I've been busy the last few days, I will set it all up in the next 2 days. I'm actually quite interested to test this out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thegreatpuma View Post
    I'm willing to help out with a few 3s. I'll get them setup tonight. are we supposed to max them out?
    No, they would all need to be the same so only just the minimum TH3.

    No upgraded troops, no dropped or upgraded buildings or collectors.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    Darn. I have upgraded collectors on mine. Just finished work so will knock a couple up after a sleep.
    I'll make a couple later today and take a screen shot to make it easy. I was thinking I would make 4 clans and then name the clans "Super Test", "All your base", "Is belong", "To us", and make some TH3's (maybe up to 15 if it is quick) for "Super Test". Everyone else would go to "To us" and try to get 15v minimum if possible (more uncommon).

    Once CWL rolls around in about 7 days from now, we try to match the clans. Will be interesting to see how long it would take, or if it is possible to match all TH3's. If the clans match, everyone in "To us" has 47 hours to move their bases over to "Is belong" and the same for "All your base"
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    I was thinking I might have go at joining you with this, But what is this now about CWL?

    There is no matchmaking as such in CWL, and there is a deliberate built in delay precisely to stop clans colluding to match each other.

    [EDIT]Ooops - I think you just meant to run it at the same time as CWL, so the pool is smaller.
    Yes, do it during CWL because the pool in smaller and nearly a week away from now when you include the 2 day cool down from regular clan wars so would all that time to get it ready.

    That would be really cool if you joined in cause that would make it easier. A public test like this makes me a little uneasy about drawing alot of attention, I would say it would be better just buried in the pages here than it's own thread.

    I've never actually tried to test this before either so it would be a first for me lol

    Quote Originally Posted by samratulangi View Post
    It is 100% sure will work as long as the bases in 2 clans ar identical, I saw it a few times done in my friend clan as they did test match, i will bring a couple of th3s also

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thegreatpuma View Post
    Got a third account done. You can go straight through just spending gems on everything. The stupid intro thing takes the longest time.
    So far I have only outlined the idea for the test and come up with names of clans (which helps in understanding the idea), I haven't created anything yet because I've had some clan and clan games stuff to do. Collectors and storages have a bit of weight, it would be good if both rosters are identical.

    It should be like this

    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    i made a th3 with minimum upgrade.. eg gold storage to level 2 to allow for hall jump. only thing added at th3 is the cc to allow for the account to join a clan.
    Built this way, and using gems, an account can be ready in about a half hour. Should be easy to get the required number of bases built this way.
    longest part is to actually make the account prior to the build.
    The very minimum to get to TH3, including all buildings, upgrades, buildings dropped, troops upgraded, everything. The absolute minimum.

    I'm not really rushing because it is still 6 days away, I like that many are keen to help. I'll try to set it up in the next day or so.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    I started some, I have 8 done so far and made the clan "Super Test"

    Only thing to upgrade is Gold storage to lvl 3

    Just drop the rest of the items needed to get to TH3, and rebuild clan castle. You can just gem all time, and buy all resources with gems.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    Ok so I made the clan "Super Test" with 20 or so TH3's and can make the log show "All your base" "Is belong" "To us"

    So I made the clan "To us" and everyone can bring their TH3's there, when everyone is there, we can spin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thegreatpuma View Post
    I have five accounts in To Us right now. That's all I'm doing for now unless we end up needing more.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    I don't think you would need more, a couple from Sam, Josh and maybe Ajax and that's a solid 15 or 20.

    I got a couple engineered in too so that it is sure to match each other and not someone else. Could spin before CWL too since it's all setup, just need more in "To us"

    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    Am deep in war ATM. 14 accounts or so that I am cooking and dropping troops. Will join in when I can

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    Hey all good, I expect people to be busy which is why I said during CWL and that is still 5 days away.

    I said before I could do it in a day if I wanted to and it was actually faster to put it together than I anticipated. The first few I was wasting time verifying each one and setting up email addresses which was a pain and then it occurred to me that if most of mine weren't going to be moving, I can then just go into my phone settings, into app manager, and delete all of the clash app data. Doing this when the account is in the clan, before setting up SCID makes the account irretrievable but reduces the time to make from 15 minutes, to 5 minutes.

    "Super Test" is sitting at 20 members, "To us" is sitting at 9 members but I'm in no rush, I could move some over and make some more and spin whenever but it would probably be better to have others experience it than just me.

    Quote Originally Posted by samratulangi View Post
    Joined with 1 acct

    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    I added 4 to the "To us" clan to make up the 15.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    All I have to say is lol

    Pics from both sides of the war






    And people complain about engineers, could be truly unstoppable....


    Edit: Ok, so now everyone can start moving to "Is belong"

    Quote Originally Posted by samratulangi View Post
    very nice Major, the easiest ws will be made

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    Easiest ws ever but should just do 3 wars with the same lineup.

    Or could possibly keep going and make a thread openly chronicling a self-match streak but I'd rather not make SC angry.

    I do have more unique bases that are clones of each other, probably another 4 for each side which would mean I would never match anyone else but myself. It would also be impossible for another clan to hunt me with just a 15 minute window of opportunity, with the exact bases, and then if they were to get that far, only have a 50% chance of matching either clan.

    Quote Originally Posted by samratulangi View Post
    With only 5-15 minutes search, even all th3 is safe

    but if u want to make this a longe ws while keep posting here, maybe make a new thread is better

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachi View Post
    Anyone can give a breakdown on the purpose of this experiment and how would this impact the rest of the community?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tosti111 View Post
    It is proving that some clans can achieve ridiculous winstreaks by matching carbon copies of their weird lineup in reg wars. it is an exploit that a portion of the community wants fixed and IMO rightly so.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    It exposes a loop hole that has existed for a very long time, if it were well known then many clans would do it. One thing to note is that if you were to self-match wars back to back, you match in 15 minutes but every other clan has hours or even a day between wars.

    Let's say your clan was doing well and had a 15 win streak, all the clan is cheering and although it may not be much to some, you did it together and it's the best you have ever done. Then you see the guy next to you who moves a few accounts, destroys 1 building, and has a 20 win streak and you both started at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thegreatpuma View Post
    This is a far cry from the sandbagged issue though. I think even with this experiment and proven results, SC is unlikely to even care. That said, it is a pretty cool experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    Oh I think they will care, Darian said they wanted to close engineering loopholes at the beginning of TH12. Pretty big loophole if you can outperform every clan in the game with a couple unique bases and an hour of making TH3's.

    Once far enough, can cheery pick all the quotes and post a more readable version of the experiment in the bugs section making sure to highlight that it takes less than 5 minutes to create a TH3, and add in suggestions of a fix.

    There isn't much more we can do as players.

    EDIT: I think it may also be quicker if the results were presented by a Game Specialist, or a Forum Mod
    .

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    lol, this match took 17 minutes




    Gonna go for the most boring winstreak in the history of the game



    Now have not only matched the same roster back to back, but in record time.

    Everyone can move to "All your base" whenever, got like 2.5 days with CWL cooldown.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    And last but not least, 29 minute search time







    Results: 2 clans with identical rosters will match each other in under 30 minutes. A solution to this is that instead of having a cool-down to match the same clan, the cool-down should apply to any player on the opposing side in the same period.

    ie. If Johnny was on the opposing team 3 wars ago, but the rest of the roster is different, won't match.

    I should also mention that it takes less than 5 minutes to create a new TH3 and could be possible to create new TH3's to self-match if needed.

    Last edited by MajorJohnson; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:04 AM.
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  2. #2
    Forum Veteran MajorJohnson's Avatar
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    I would also like to bring some attention to another topic posted today in the Clan Wars section.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhruvik View Post
    Here's a post I found on reddit today
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ClashOfClan..._to_supercell/
    Quoting text from it:

    Dear Supercell,
    I am a player in the clan __________, which currently ranks second in the total number of wars won. In this wonderful game, I am only interested in one thing - the clan wars. Making the optimal roster, engineering, finding and creating the best layouts in this game, and, of course, making win streaks, of which ours is in triple digits. That is what keeps me interested in this beautiful game.

    However, there is a huge problem, which practically nullifies all endeavors and efforts of many clans, including my clan and me in particular. Since the introduction of the matching-changes on August 25 2017 it has become relatively easy for anyone to war against... themselves. Yes, you understood me correctly - against themselves. All you need to start wars against yourself is to find a very unpopular roster and start wars using this roster in two separate clans. To lose, in this case, all you need to do is not attack, making the main clan invincible. As you might have guessed, you can do this as many times as you want. 50 win streak? Easy. 100? Same. It just takes some time.

    Currently clans can't war against each other for about 2 weeks once they've matched. However, this can be bypassed easily by making a new clan (the clan that will lose) for each war. This can be prevented by adding a similar cool down of about 2 weeks for the individual players so two clans with a players that have recently fought in war would he unable to match for that duration.
    Finally, I urge SuperCell to take action against this self-matching, as well as against clans that conduct their wars in this way. Since you support the fair play in your game (and I know how serious are you about it in CWL!), I would like to believe that you will take all necessary measures against this.


    He has even added names of clans who do this, but I am not mentioning them as it may be against rules.

    Now another similar post. Read the comment
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ClashOfClan...y_in_comments/
    Quotient text-
    A little backstory, I'm the leader of a lvl10 clan. War log is 128-10-3 (or similar, didn't check to see exactly). We currently have a streak of 19. Name is -------- if you want to verify.

    Ok, now for the "hunting." I met a guy in global, we will call him -----. He was a max th10. Impressive war stars. Good attacking ability. Overall good recruit. He did a war with us and put up a 6 pack. Nothing too out of the ordinary. Fast forward to the next war. We match in about 5 minutes. Odd. Normally takes 30+. Then, before war starts, we get a guy trying to join the clan and he has a message along the lines of "You have been hunted, pm [Random Username] on line for more info." Then, right before war starts, Fred deletes his cc troops and throws up a base designed to be easily 3 starred. He also spelled out hunted with his walls.

    These guys knew who we put in war and when we searched, so they put equal weight bases in their search and began searching at the same time. Then they screenshotted all of our bases so they can attack and practice on them countless times before the actual war started. Then, he made his base an easy 3 star right as war was about to start. It was the whole reason he joined us in the first place. He saw we had a high streak going, and that is what this clan does. They try to play dirty and sabotage you in war so they have a huge advantage and can end your streak. It's smart in a sense, but it is just way too sleezy for me to get behind.

    Additionally, one of our members recognized a clan from their war log. They had a 30 streak going before what I imagine has happened to us happened to them.

    Second one seems kinda creepy, but still both of these post have proof attached with them. I don't know how if it is against the rules, but to get such accurate matchmakings is sure something which made me think "How efficient is war matchmaking?"
    Last edited by MajorJohnson; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:56 PM.
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  3. #3
    Junior Member Brenna's Avatar
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    I hope this gets some notice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Didsomeonepickthisname View Post
    Why is this a problem. I don't see an issue
    Then obviously you dont chase a win streak, or at least dont achieve one that is high enough for you to care.

    For anyone that does, it certainly is an issue, because it takes advantage of the system to give them a route to a risk free elevated war log. Since they match themselves, then only 1 attack is enough to secure the war win, before matching their "B" team in their new location.

    This is not only giving that clan a falsely created appearance of superiority, but is also pushing legitimately created streaks further down the list.
    It cheapens the whole concept of having a war record at all.

    It is an issue that is also risky to highlight, as education leads to escalation. Once people become aware, many will create, same as the lop sided engi issue back in the day.

    I agree that most clans wouldnt care about the issue, but there should still be plenty that would be aggrieved if/once they are aware.
    And in the very least, it is a loop hole. All loop holes should be addressed once they are uncovered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Didsomeonepickthisname View Post
    What does a high win streak get you? Especially when one look at a war log shows that it's not legit
    Why isnt it legit?.. Because they dont play your way?

    Lets talk legit..
    I have 2 clans..

    Main clan is mainly balanced build.
    But our anchor bases, 3 of them, have taken advantage of the events designed to quicken base progression.
    They are mid to high TH11 now, yet havent learned an attack strat to accompany that weight gain.
    They still use the valks that served them during TH10.
    Last 5 wars, the oppo has trounced us, since they attack well.. Is their win legit, even tho in reality they were so superior?

    Alt clan is low level, started simply to accommodate the low level cwl accounts prior to the 30v option.
    I am roster engineering there.
    By that, I mean that I am controlling the weight of the accounts on the roster, as a 1 man clan.
    There is no base advantage, as with the MMA you draw what you bring, so to speak, if you use balanced bases, which I do.
    But, since they are mini accounts, my greater experience puts me at an advantage.
    So far, after 3 wars, I havent dropped a star with the 30 attacks that I have done.. Is that legit?

    In my view, legit is simply earned thru chancing the draw. The top clans will have an impressive war record, so simply viewing that war log says nothing, unless someone was simply looking to dismiss a play style in which they have no interest.
    Each to their own, otherwise no war log is legit, since there will be cup cake wars contained within.
    Last edited by joshsgrandad; 4 Weeks Ago at 01:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Didsomeonepickthisname View Post
    Now I'm really unclear about about what you want. I'll ask again what difference does it make? What do these clans gain? Why should anyone care? Especially when when it has zero effect on you and your game
    What I want, is the same as Major. Closure of a loophole, whereby clans can match themselves to build a win streak without actually participating in a war against an unknown opponent.
    What difference it makes, is that it has a negative impact on those clans that do chase big win streaks. They may manipulate, but they still chance the spin.
    What those clans gain, is a big win streak without ever having that streak on the line. Since they are almost certainly guaranteed to match themselves, due to the quickness of the match up.
    Why should anyone care?. It is up to the individual as to whether or not they care how others enjoy the game. Personally, I gain nothing, but agree with those that are affected. But since you dont care, then why bother posting?
    Many things have an effect on others, whether directly or indirectly. But lack of interest is best just avoided, rather than continuing negatives. Am not sure what your initial post was intended to do, other than increase your post count.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Didsomeonepickthisname View Post
    What does a high win streak get you? Especially when one look at a war log shows that it's not legit
    What does a high legends total get me? Nothing, but it is something I play for. It negatively impacts my game experience when players account share and cheat their way to the high trophies. The same reasoning applies to win streaks and clans that self match to get a long streak.
    Contact SC here. Click here to see how trophies are calculated. I'm still thinking starting the "new" legends at Legends2 at 5500 and having Legends3 be for 5000-5499 would be good (with season resets to 5000 and 5500 depending on your trophies at season end) but overall I LOVE the Legends change. Thanks SC.

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    Following the same logic why should you care if your favourite sports team has a good record or not, you never have to play them. it is about fair play and in my mind that is something we all should care about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Didsomeonepickthisname View Post
    But there are actual rules about account sharing and a prize at the end of the season. There isn't even a SC supported way to see who has a high win streak


    That's not really the same logic. A sports team record gets them into the post season and a potential shot at a championship. There is no championship game for clans with the highest win streak.
    You missed my point entirely. how does your favourite sports team performance affect YOU. You didnt win, you didnt lose, you did nothing to affect the outcome.

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    There is a group supporting the clouds and now this? I can't believe it, or maybe they are who get advantadge exploiting this loophoole

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