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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Self-Match Clans - A loophole left unchecked

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piper139 View Post
    Ah. So gaming the system one way is legit but the other is not? I'm not disagreeing that self matching is not legit. So, defend why a manufactured war win streak based on ensuring war wins is more legit.
    Quite easy actually.

    Engineering is not a loophole, but is an active process that most people engage in daily. In fact self-matching is actually a form of engineering that currently takes advantage of a huge loophole.

    Self-matching is a deliberate attempt to match against yourself(match fixing). The loophole being that a clan could theoretically match against themselves an infinite amount of times, with the only requirement be that they switch these engineered self-matching bases to a different "scrub" clan.

    Manufactured war streaks still face a legitimate opponent, whether that opponent is outmatched or not.(steps have been taken to curb the prevalance of engineering).

    Self-matching, matches you against yourself.(Steps have not been taken to curb the prevalance of self-matching)

    Whether you recognize the legitimacy or not, steps have been taken to close loopholes on weighted engineering, none have been taken to address self-matching.

  2. #52
    Forum Contender Piper139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiddleC View Post
    Quite easy actually.

    Engineering is not a loophole, but is an active process that most people engage in daily. In fact self-matching is actually a form of engineering that currently takes advantage of a huge loophole.

    Self-matching is a deliberate attempt to match against yourself(match fixing). The loophole being that a clan could theoretically match against themselves an infinite amount of times, with the only requirement be that they switch these engineered self-matching bases to a different "scrub" clan.

    Manufactured war streaks still face a legitimate opponent, whether that opponent is outmatched or not.(steps have been taken to curb the prevalance of engineering).

    Self-matching, matches you against yourself.(Steps have not been taken to curb the prevalance of self-matching)

    Whether you recognize the legitimacy or not, steps have been taken to close loopholes on weighted engineering, none have been taken to address self-matching.
    Loopholes have been closed against cookie cutter engineering. They should be against self matching. Ask major or Sam when was the last time they face a truly equal opponent. I'll wait. You tossed out the legitimate term . Why is what they do more legitimate?
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piper139 View Post
    Loopholes have been closed against cookie cutter engineering. They should be against self matching. Ask major or Sam when was the last time they face a truly equal opponent. I'll wait. You tossed out the legitimate term . Why is what they do more legitimate?
    Because they are not gaining win streaks against themselves but instead against other people?

    Im sure part of that "truly equal opponent", comes down to the ability to plan, communicate, and execute a strategy with your clan... against a clan that is not yourself. Ya know?

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by HonoraryGoblin View Post
    3: name your scrub clan in a foreign language like chinese, farsi, or perhaps russian. this makes it difficult for people who examine you awesome war log to trace the scrub clans to see they no longer exist
    love number 3!

  5. #55
    Forum Contender Piper139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiddleC View Post
    Because they are not gaining win streaks against themselves but instead against other people?

    Im sure part of that "truly equal opponent", comes down to the ability to plan, communicate, and execute a strategy with your clan... against a clan that is not yourself. Ya know?
    Don't think we are communicating. Why is clan a who self matches more legit than clan b that creates a lineup to ensure that clan c that matches them has no chamce? Both manipulate the matchmaker to ensure win streaks.
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  6. #56
    Forum Veteran MajorJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piper139 View Post
    Don't think we are communicating. Why is clan a who self matches more legit than clan b that creates a lineup to ensure that clan c that matches them has no chamce? Both manipulate the matchmaker to ensure win streaks.
    Because we are building bases to fight war with a strategy in mind, it takes time and effort to play the game, do CWL, do Clan Games, fill castles, fight war, build the clan to where you envision it to be based on knowledge of the game. Every war is infact on the line and are ever present of spies, of clans trying to hunt you and take you down, forging alliances with other clans.

    You would be amazed to see one of our wars in action, and maybe that isn't your cup of tea but there is a certain satisfaction in fighting wars with a small, highly skilled team.

    On the other hand if we were to self-match, we would gain win-streak faster, and never have to worry about being hunted because there is such a small window of opportunity for another clan to force-match and if they would, it is still a 50/50 chance to match either clan.

    You are also forced to stop playing the game once you have your roster in place, your clone roster must be the same which means you don't need to farm, or fill castles, or do CWL, react to changes in MM, and at minimum destroy 1 building in a war.

    Self-match clans could be described as just moving a few bases every 2 days, and setting a timer to attack.
    Last edited by MajorJohnson; 4 Weeks Ago at 02:54 AM.
    Engineered for success---Engineered to win---Winning is life---Tiger Blood

    Supercell enforcing fair play? Let's stop Self-Match Clans https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...left-unchecked

  7. #57
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    Whether one type of activity is more morally respectable than another is really a red herring. Both DUIs and jaywalking are against the law but we dont allow the jaywalker off because of his claim that at least he isnt driving drunk. We know that self matching isnt a good thing, lets kill it before it multiplies.

  8. #58
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    i have never been a "maxer" mentality that everything must be maxed before upgrading. my definition of "rushed" is if a th one level or more under you can 3 star you and you cannot routinely 3 star your own level or two star a th level above you in war

    i had an old clan leader tell me the bomb tower is "stupid weight". it adds a lot of weight to your base and really doesn't make a difference. you know, he was right. not once have i said, "i could 3 star that base except for the maxed bomb tower(s)!" my bomb towers are all level 1 still on all my accounts and it is the last thing i place on a th8 before immediately hitting the upgrade to th9

    thus, even i "engineer" weight and any th8 i have might be considered a ".5" without the bomb tower down

    i now encourage my 9s to hit the button to 10 with 15/15 heroes. if 10 were still top dog and needed 9's to 2 star them in war, sure, we need you to be strong and 30/30 heroes. but that isn't the case. the siege and a mid-range 10 that can 3 star a max 10 is more important than maxing out th9

    that is "engineering" too

    but to help highlight the problems of self-matching, i broke down my "near identical" th10s that are always side by side on regular war maps and compared every defensive element. i have no clue why base a sits above base b on a war map. by every intuitive metric, base b should be heavier!

    all I have to do is focus upgrades on both bases to make them identical, then each time base a upgrades a wall or tower, go over to base b and upgrade the same thing. at that point, provided sc hasn't addressed the self-matching issue, i will continue my experimenting and data collection

    i reread this entire thread today. i noticed early on several veteran voices including a moderator and maybe a game specialist or two saying self-matching only affects a handful of clans

    that's like living on the hill in the rich part of town and saying homelessness only affects a few people because you don't see it. when i went "under the bridge" to the darker side of the matchmaker, i have discovered there are multitudes of clans down here at least *attempting* to self-match for whatever reason. my mismatches now include 2 chinese clans, 2 iranian clans, and a russian clan. sure this is a small sample, but i find it worth noting all the same and will continue to note if self-matching is more prevalent as a regional phenomenon

    but it's out there. it's happening. it was mentioned before coc is a social game. if "multitudes" of players (self-matching "clans" do appear to be a single player running 10 (5v5) or 20 (10v10) accounts) -- if multitudes of players are withdrawing from the legitimate pool for the war mm, that does affect *everyone else* in the availability and quality of opponents in the "legitimate" pool

    like i said, a self-matching attempt with a screwball roster "mis-matches" with another screwball opponent faster than a legitimate roster draws a legitimate opponent

    that affects everybody
    Last edited by HonoraryGoblin; 4 Weeks Ago at 06:46 AM.

  9. #59
    Forum Veteran MajorJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HonoraryGoblin View Post
    i have never been a "maxer" mentality that everything must be maxed before upgrading. my definition of "rushed" is if a th one level or more under you can 3 star you and you cannot routinely 3 star your own level or two star a th level above you in war

    i had an old clan leader tell me the bomb tower is "stupid weight". it adds a lot of weight to your base and really doesn't make a difference. you know, he was right. not once have i said, "i could 3 star that base except for the maxed bomb tower(s)!" my bomb towers are all level 1 still on all my accounts and it is the last thing i place on a th8 before immediately hitting the upgrade to th9

    thus, even i "engineer" weight and any th8 i have might be considered a ".5" without the bomb tower down

    i now encourage my 9s to hit the button to 10 with 15/15 heroes. if 10 were still top dog and needed 9's to 2 star them in war, sure, we need you to be strong and 30/30 heroes. but that isn't the case. the siege and a mid-range 10 that can 3 star a max 10 is more important than maxing out th9

    that is "engineering" too

    but to help highlight the problems of self-matching, i broke down my "near identical" th10s that are always side by side on regular war maps and compared every defensive element. i have no clue why base a sits above base b on a war map. by every intuitive metric, base b should be heavier!

    all I have to do is focus upgrades on both bases to make them identical, then each time base a upgrades a wall or tower, go over to base b and upgrade the same thing. at that point, provided sc hasn't addressed the self-matching issue, i will continue my experimenting and data collection

    i reread this entire thread today. i noticed early on several veteran voices including a moderator and maybe a game specialist or two saying self-matching only affects a handful of clans

    that's like living on the hill in the rich part of town and saying homelessness only affects a few people because you don't see it. when i went "under the bridge" to the darker side of the matchmaker, i have discovered there are multitudes of clans down here at least *attempting* to self-match for whatever reason. my mismatches now include 2 chinese clans, 2 iranian clans, and a russian clan. sure this is a small sample, but i find it worth noting all the same and will continue to note if self-matching is more prevalent as a regional phenomenon

    but it's out there. it's happening. it was mentioned before coc is a social game. if "multitudes" of players (self-matching "clans" do appear to be a single player running 10 (5v5) or 20 (10v10) accounts) -- if multitudes of players are withdrawing from the legitimate pool for the war mm, that does affect *everyone else* in the availability and quality of opponents in the "legitimate" pool

    like i said, a self-matching attempt with a screwball roster "mis-matches" with another screwball opponent faster than a legitimate roster draws a legitimate opponent

    that affects everybody
    I'd just live to say bravo and have only recently talked with HoneryGoblin, I think this post is very valuable in the collection of data. I don't have more data present so it helps alot

    MM in its current form is very good, even BoboTheGoat who has always been an anti-engineer can achieve a 50+ win streak because of skill.
    Engineered for success---Engineered to win---Winning is life---Tiger Blood

    Supercell enforcing fair play? Let's stop Self-Match Clans https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...left-unchecked

  10.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Piper139 View Post
    Ah. So gaming the system one way is legit but the other is not? I'm not disagreeing that self matching is not legit. So, defend why a manufactured war win streak based on ensuring war wins is more legit.
    Because engineering is NOT against the ToS, while self matching is clearly "win trading", which IS explicitly against the ToS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grill View Post
    But when something like an update is to be expected all stupid breaks loose and it just becomes an idiot storm of catastrophic proportion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Maverick View Post
    Any more balance to th10 will make th10 broken...
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