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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Self-Match Clans - A loophole left unchecked

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    That is why I mentioned how quickly it is to create new players, maybe some minimum weight?

    You can create new bases, delete data in app settings so you don't have to bother with SCID or email, it cuts down creation time to under 5 minutes.

    I would think SC should consider that aspect, especially since the reddit post referenced using only TH3's
    so back to my question. how excatly can you fix it? ban a clan from repeating war with each other? wont help as they switch the name. ban players from repeating war with each other, even in different clans? wont help because they will just create new players. make a minimum war weight? first of all thats not fair to legitimate lower TH players. second of all, if someone were interested, it may take some more time, but you can get to th4 almost as easily as TH3, it takes maybe an extra minute. at what point do you realize that its an almost impossible fix?

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by mandy12 View Post
    so back to my question. how excatly can you fix it? ban a clan from repeating war with each other? wont help as they switch the name. ban players from repeating war with each other, even in different clans? wont help because they will just create new players. make a minimum war weight? first of all thats not fair to legitimate lower TH players. second of all, if someone were interested, it may take some more time, but you can get to th4 almost as easily as TH3, it takes maybe an extra minute. at what point do you realize that its an almost impossible fix?
    points for mandy on this response

    we are looking at it from the player perspective. server-side this game is run on complex algorithms that resolve in the blink of an eye. the solution is an "invisible" server-side algorithm

    if a clan does a search and gets matched abnormally quickly (less than 1/2 average search time) the algorithm checks to see when the opponent clan searched. if the times are close and 1 clan is a "newly formed" (sc defines secretly for algorithm) clan, then both clans get flagged.

    once a clan is flagged a certain number of times (i suggest 2) sc's algorithm data mines info on a flagged clan's opponents. it can search for things like how evenly weighted bases are, same base account tags, time between creation and current war search, number of prior wars, and a whole host of other indicators. if there is a "narrow" variance ("narrow" being defined by sc as how far outside the norm the data falls), then stamp that clan's data array with the results

    let that clan participate in a few more wars and see if its opposition falls within the same self-defined parameters

    if it consistently pulls opps in the "narrow" parameters (such as same base tags and/or less than 2 hours from clan creation to first search and/or opp clan's first or second war, etc) then the mm will not pair the clan with *any* clan that meets those data parameters.

    let their search request spin for days or get surprised by always being paired with legitimate clans
    Last edited by HonoraryGoblin; June 17th, 2019 at 02:43 PM.

  3. #23
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    That new 'solution' would prolly work, but will put more pressure on the server. Aside from the fact that the checkbox 'newly formed' could again already get gamed. Create some clans, let them idle and create a new one, once you burned one. Tadaa, one clan in two days. 15 clans in check, a whole month of creationtime.
    Want to check the accounts in there as well for the creationtime to solve this way of bypassing it? Phew, then you just added another databank-check to every single account in war. With at least 3 additional operations for each member.

    It istn't easy to solve this. Hence it's easy to abuse.
    One way to check with far less operations needed is to send a check at the end of a war for the winstreak. Higher than 25? Or maybe 50? Let someone then review the wars real quick (winstreaks high as that one 'shouldn't be too often, are they?). They look fishy? One attack in each war? 1 star for the win? Boom, clan banned.
    And if they start making those wars look 'retail' by actually attacking, making it look like a real war... hey, at least they are entertained, managing 10 accounts in two days. Yet again another 'solution' bypassed, but at least they now have to put some work in it.

    But honestly, while it is annoying, it as well is somewhat of a small issue. I'd love to see something like that fixed, since it clearly is a flaw and abuse, but it actually is hard to do so for literally no gain at this given time.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Didsomeonepickthisname View Post
    But how does another clans win streak take away from the fun of trying to build your own? Especially if it's obvious that clans win streak is just manipulate garbage.
    The same way cheating account sharing players with high legends trophies took fun away from my own trophy push. The same way players that bot their way to very high achievements take fun away from players trying to complete their own achievements and/or get ranked high for those whether it be donations or some other thing. The same way players that bot their way to high XP take fun away from those trying to get their own XP high. My own clan has only had streaks in the 30s, so this issue doesn’t impact my clan much, but I can understand why it impacts others. Many players pick something to “care about” in this game and part of the fun of a game like this is the focus on something that really doesn’t matter in the real world, but is fun to care about here. There is even a big forum thread that ranks forum members on their achievements.

    There are plenty of sites that show players the current best streaks, how high their own war streak ranks, etc. For players that care about war streaks, their own streak looks worse than it really is due to clans doing this type of matching. Many probably don’t even realize that this type of matching exists.
    Contact SC here. Click here to see how trophies are calculated. I'm still thinking starting the "new" legends at Legends2 at 5500 and having Legends3 be for 5000-5499 would be good (with season resets to 5000 and 5500 depending on your trophies at season end) but overall I LOVE the Legends change. Thanks SC.

  5. #25
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    I agree with everyone who responded saying that this isn't a problem. Another clan's win streak has absolutely no impact on you except for anything emotionally self-imposed when you compare your own clan to another.

    Some of 2222's examples are not really similar. Someone sharing accounts to place high in legends does affect you, because they attack you. Also, there are awards of gems each season to the top 3 clans, so their account sharing makes it harder for you to win those gems. Account-sharers affect others' results. However there is absolutely no prize for war win streaks. One clan's war win streak does not affect ANYONE. Not the same situation at all.

    Supercell has a ton of more important things to worry about rather than this loophole that a only handful of clans may be exploiting to the detriment of none.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyPC View Post
    I agree with everyone who responded saying that this isn't a problem. Another clan's win streak has absolutely no impact on you except for anything emotionally self-imposed when you compare your own clan to another.

    Some of 2222's examples are not really similar. Someone sharing accounts to place high in legends does affect you, because they attack you. Also, there are awards of gems each season to the top 3 clans, so their account sharing makes it harder for you to win those gems. Account-sharers affect others' results. However there is absolutely no prize for war win streaks. One clan's war win streak does not affect ANYONE. Not the same situation at all.

    Supercell has a ton of more important things to worry about rather than this loophole that a only handful of clans may be exploiting to the detriment of none.
    The part that I don’t agree with here is you telling other people what matters to them in this game. None of it matters in real life, but there is no way for you to decide what is important to others when it comes to a game like this. Players like and care about all sorts of odd things in this game that I don’t care about. I couldn’t even venture a guess at what my XP is, but I know some players care a lot about it. They aren’t wrong and I’m not right.

    Regarding the legends account sharing, yes, you are correct there is that additional problem that causes, but I referred specifically to my ranking. There are plenty of players in my clan that don’t care at all what their ranking is at the end of the season. I do care and it negatively impacts my game that I am artificially lower because of account sharing players. Even without them, I would not be in the top 3 so I have no prize to win, yet it still negatively impacts me.

    So, I can easily understand why self matching negatively impacts the game for players who care about win streaks. I agree with you in the sense that I don’t care where my clan ranks for win streaks, I never look. I disagree with the suggestion that it also doesn’t matter to others. It definitely does.

    Whether SC should do something to stop it is yet another question. I have no idea what they would do, how much time and effort it would take, etc. so I don’t really have much of an opinion on that one. I think SC should at least start by making it clear in the terms of service that it isn’t allowed.
    Last edited by 2222; June 17th, 2019 at 04:54 PM.
    Contact SC here. Click here to see how trophies are calculated. I'm still thinking starting the "new" legends at Legends2 at 5500 and having Legends3 be for 5000-5499 would be good (with season resets to 5000 and 5500 depending on your trophies at season end) but overall I LOVE the Legends change. Thanks SC.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by HonoraryGoblin View Post
    points for mandy on this response

    we are looking at it from the player perspective. server-side this game is run on complex algorithms that resolve in the blink of an eye. the solution is an "invisible" server-side algorithm

    if a clan does a search and gets matched abnormally quickly (less than 1/2 average search time) the algorithm checks to see when the opponent clan searched
    thanx,

    THIS may be the only realistic solution ive heard yet.
    only switch it up a drop. if a clan finds a partner in war within a certain timetable, numerous times in a row, that should be a red flag, and SC should investigate that clan

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    The part that I don’t agree with here is you telling other people what matters to them in this game. None of it matters in real life, but there is no way for you to decide what is important to others when it comes to a game like this. Players like and care about all sorts of odd things in this game that I don’t care about. I couldn’t even venture a guess at what my XP is, but I know some players care a lot about it. They aren’t wrong and I’m not right.

    Regarding the legends account sharing, yes, you are correct there is that additional problem that causes, but I referred specifically to my ranking. There are plenty of players in my clan that don’t care at all what their ranking is at the end of the season. I do care and it negatively impacts my game that I am artificially lower because of account sharing players. Even without them, I would not be in the top 3 so I have no prize to win, yet it still negatively impacts me.

    So, I can easily understand why self matching negatively impacts the game for players who care about win streaks. I agree with you in the sense that I don’t care where my clan ranks for win streaks, I never look. I disagree with the suggestion that it also doesn’t matter to others. It definitely does.

    Whether SC should do something to stop it is yet another question. I have no idea what they would do, how much time and effort it would take, etc. so I don’t really have much of an opinion on that one. I think SC should at least start by making it clear in the terms of service that it isn’t allowed.
    First precautions would need to be in place in order to make self-matching impossible.

    This has been going on for more than 2 years so if you were to ban clans or players, it would not fix all that damage done.

    However....

    Providing you had the data on clans (hypothetical), you could search for any war that contained the same players on the opposing team in back to back wars and strip only those wars from the war log (remove self-matched wars but not normal spin).

    Like a Thanos snap.



    There are clans that turned to self-matching after fighting wars normally and you don't want to remove players from playing the game but self-match clans know they are exploiting the system.

    Edit: To further clarify, you could search through every war in the past 2 years (or maybe longer) and if you fought a war, and then the next war contained a single player (or 2-3) that was in the line-up of the opposing team of the previous war, the second war, third war etc. is stripped from the war log. I would think you would get no false positives even if based on having just a single player from the previous war on the opposing team.
    Last edited by MajorJohnson; June 17th, 2019 at 08:42 PM.
    Engineered for success---Engineered to win---Winning is life---Tiger Blood

    Supercell enforcing fair play? Let's stop Self-Match Clans https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...left-unchecked

  9.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #29
    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    Whether SC should do something to stop it is yet another question. I have no idea what they would do, how much time and effort it would take, etc. so I don’t really have much of an opinion on that one. I think SC should at least start by making it clear in the terms of service that it isn’t allowed.
    It is very hard to argue that this is anything other than win trading, and the T&Cs already explicitly forbid that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grill View Post
    But when something like an update is to be expected all stupid breaks loose and it just becomes an idiot storm of catastrophic proportion.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyPC View Post
    I agree with everyone who responded saying that this isn't a problem. Another clan's win streak has absolutely no impact on you except for anything emotionally self-imposed when you compare your own clan to another.

    Some of 2222's examples are not really similar. Someone sharing accounts to place high in legends does affect you, because they attack you. Also, there are awards of gems each season to the top 3 clans, so their account sharing makes it harder for you to win those gems. Account-sharers affect others' results. However there is absolutely no prize for war win streaks. One clan's war win streak does not affect ANYONE. Not the same situation at all.

    Supercell has a ton of more important things to worry about rather than this loophole that a only handful of clans may be exploiting to the detriment of none.
    Then why is “win trading and other manipulation of rankings” prohibited by the terms of service? The TOS doesnt say that it has to affect anyone to still be forbidden.

    Ninja’d by Ajax
    Last edited by Tosti111; June 17th, 2019 at 08:05 PM.

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