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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: you fixed the clouds, now fix the cw matchmaker please

  1. #1
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    you fixed the clouds, now fix the cw matchmaker please

    getting tired of being consistently matched against roster engineers and defenseless engineers in cw. the matchmaker needs to be revamped to identify the engineers who game the system to get an advantage rather than use actual skill in attacking to win wars

    the matchmaker needs to identify the following:

    an excessive spread or range of bases for the size of war. in our last war we had two new th11s (warden, no eagles), six th10s, one th9 and one th8. that's a range of {4}. our opponents had two mid 11s with eagles, four th10 with weak defenses but max troops, a th9 that wasn't even low th8 in defense, a th8, and two th6's to offset the heavier 11s for a range of {6}

    now how can the algorithm look at that and say it's a fair match? one clan is running normally progressing bases, but they are punished by being continually pitted against engineered clans that use the system (to have heavier defenses and more powerful offenses) and not skill to win wars. I mean they only beat us by one star and that was only because their engineering allowed them to have two anchors up top

    why should we be penalized for playing with skill while they are rewarded for playing with numbers?

    end rant. let's look at solutions

    having a defenseless 11 is a huge advantage in cw now that they cannot be made anymore. I see defenseless 11s down with the 8's and this gives them two free top end hits. the offset is usually we get an extra 10 than they have. big whoop

    so any base that's weight puts it below a lower th on the map flags the clan as an engineered lineup

    using a few low bases to offset heavy bases is the hallmark of an engineered roster

    first, any clan that has a range more than 1/3n+1 is flagged as an engineered clan where n = number of bases in war

    example: in a 10v10 war, 1/5 of 10 is 2. so the maximum range to not be flagged is 3 th levels. 8-10, 9-11, 10-12. a clan running 6-11 or the extreme 3-12 would be flagged as engineers. in 15v15, 1/5 is 3 so the range break is 4, etc. the bigger the war, the more leeway in bases because ordinary/casual clans do have a wider range of players/accounts

    second, if there is a gap between the lowest th level and the second lowest th level, the clan is flagged as engineered

    so th6's jumping to th8's would be a flag. th3's jumping to th9's would be a flag

    ==========

    now what to do with flags?

    non-flagged clans would be put in one search pool and matched on their weight

    flagged clans would be put in a separate search pool and matched on their weight

    this way, honest clans can play based on skill and the engineers can see who out-mathed the other one better

    =========

    other (or additional) options are:

    only match based on the th levels and weight of the top 1/2 of bases for both clans

    give us "short format" wars such as my suggested village vanquisher wars or other war modes where all the bases in the war are the same th level

    (shameless plug)
    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...anquisher-wars

    thanks for reading and understanding the plight of the ordinary, honest players who want to rely on skill and who don't try to game the system to just to get a win
    Last edited by HonoraryGoblin; June 14th, 2019 at 01:31 AM.

  2. #2
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    I think all those ideas would be easy bypassed just like all changes made to the MM, and it will short the war pool so less clans to match and it will cause more mismatches or very larger searches, my advice to counter engineering is to always go with a full or almost a full TH on your #1 and #2 if you can.

  3. #3
    Forum Champion BloodyIrishman's Avatar
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    Clan war match making is better than its ever been before.

    If you're seeing engineering occurring in the clans you're facing you can almost guarantee there's engineering on your side as well.

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  4. #4
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    A clan has 3 brand new players each with a th6.
    A 4th player joins using a new base (th6) and brings in their max or near max th12
    So, they have 5 bases total: 1 th12 and 4 th6s.
    According to your conditions, this clan would be flagged as engineered b/c there is a gap in th levels between the lowest ranked (th 6)and second lowest ranked (th 12).
    So, should a clan that is progressing "normally" be put into the engineered pool all due to a gap in th levels?
    Take a 10vs10 with all "normal" progressing bases, for example: 1 th12, 1 th11, 5 th 10s, and 3 th 7s.
    Should such a line-up get thrown into the engineered pool due to a level gap from the lowest to second lowest th level? Would they not in turn get screwed by an engineered clan due to such a thing?
    Engineering is a thing of the past. It's a fart in the wind, really.
    Once your clan's bases are far enough progressed, you won't even notice it anymore.
    My mini is in a new-ish clan with new players. We are mostly th9s now and have recruited some th10s.
    However, when we were all progressing towards th9, we never got matched against an engineered clan, and I suspect we probably won't.
    Engineering is quickly going the way of the dinosaurs, and will soon be a distant memory, if it's not already so.
    Grin and bear it for the short time it'll be. It will get better.

  5. #5
    Forum Contender Piper139's Avatar
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    Look at your own lineup. Run a 3to 4 town hall spread. Balanced bases. No problem.
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  6. #6
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    Your top 2 bases have wardens but no eagles, that is mild engineering. Build those eagles and it should be better.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the responses. Let me address some comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by IcecreaM86 View Post
    I think all those ideas would be easy bypassed just like all changes made to the MM
    please give examples (for each) how all those ideas would be "easily bypassed"

    Quote Originally Posted by IcecreaM86
    and it will short the war pool so less clans to match and it will cause more mismatches or very larger searches,
    it won't short the war pool. if you have 12 clans searching of relative weight and 6 are normal and 6 are engineers, you still have 12 clans searching. normals pair normal and engineers pair engineers. but engineering is supposedly a "thing of the past," a "fart in the wind," "going the way of the dinosaurs." if those posters are accurate, your pool will be 9 to 3. instead of possibly 6 mismatches, you get maybe 1. in and of itself only engineers will have longer times to pair -- if engineering is truly dying out that is. i'm good with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by IcecreaM86
    my advice to counter engineering is to always go with a full or almost a full TH on your #1 and #2 if you can.
    and if you can't?

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodyIrishman View Post
    Clan war match making is better than its ever been before.
    agreed, but still needs fixed

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodyIrishman
    If you're seeing engineering occurring in the clans you're facing you can almost guarantee there's engineering on your side as well.
    nothing flagrant or intentional. just people building bases and doing lab work as resources and builders come available

    Quote Originally Posted by joemann8478 View Post
    A clan has 3 brand new players each with a th6.
    A 4th player joins using a new base (th6) and brings in their max or near max th12
    So, they have 5 bases total: 1 th12 and 4 th6s.
    According to your conditions, this clan would be flagged as engineered b/c there is a gap in th levels between the lowest ranked (th 6)and second lowest ranked (th 12).
    So, should a clan that is progressing "normally" be put into the engineered pool all due to a gap in th levels?
    that would be a [bad] roster to take into cw. it would get beat no matter who it faced. vs engineers tho, it actually might stand a better chance if their roster was also highly skewed. but engineers don't skew the lineup just to skew the lineup. they skew the lineup to win. they will have a th11 anchor then a th11 with a level 1 cannon and a th9 with light defense along with th6's. hoping to draw a normal clan running 8-11 or 9-11 in that way they can run the board. the goal is to have an anchor the opp can't beat with their weaker top base and win by a star with everything under the anchors (top bases) 3 starred on both sides of the map so they don't care about the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by joemann8478
    Take a 10vs10 with all "normal" progressing bases, for example: 1 th12, 1 th11, 5 th 10s, and 3 th 7s.
    Should such a line-up get thrown into the engineered pool due to a level gap from the lowest to second lowest th level? Would they not in turn get screwed by an engineered clan due to such a thing?
    yes. that is an engineered roster

    depends, but probably yes. of course, if they don't want to face (or lose to) engineers, one guy before you says max the top if you can and another after you says take out the engineering on your side

    because

    engineering isn't prevalent as you say, even though you present an engineered roster

    Quote Originally Posted by joemann8478
    Engineering is a thing of the past. It's a fart in the wind, really.
    Once your clan's bases are far enough progressed, you won't even notice it anymore.
    My mini is in a new-ish clan with new players. We are mostly th9s now and have recruited some th10s.
    However, when we were all progressing towards th9, we never got matched against an engineered clan, and I suspect we probably won't.
    Engineering is quickly going the way of the dinosaurs, and will soon be a distant memory, if it's not already so.
    Grin and bear it for the short time it'll be. It will get better.
    the last 4 cw's we faced (2 before and 2 after cwl) all had engineered rosters and/or bases. prior to that, we only saw engineers when our win streak was 6+

    Quote Originally Posted by Piper139 View Post
    Look at your own lineup. Run a 3to 4 town hall spread. Balanced bases. No problem.
    we do run a 3 to 4 th spread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinwhit View Post
    Your top 2 bases have wardens but no eagles, that is mild engineering. Build those eagles and it should be better.
    possibly so. but we go by the mantra "build what you can beat." both our th11s turned 11 right before cwl. neither is entirely adept at th11 attacks yet. that's on us. lots of room for improvement. even as max-ish 10s they started drawing engineered 11s in cw tho. that's on sc. also some room for improvement
    Last edited by HonoraryGoblin; 4 Weeks Ago at 04:54 AM.

  8. #8
    1st official move they made against Engi-Bases: You cannot level up TH without first placing all buildings of recent level.
    I don't know if there have been other moves done against Engi-Bases.

    2nd official should be, that old bases from before "1st" (back then) where buildings are missing should not be able to join any kind of clan competition.

    3rd official should be, that once all buildings are placed, the game checks for gaps between TH/Army Camps and other buildings to elaborate if the base is an Engi-Base.

  9. #9
    The matching works well if your lineup is consistent ;
    if you are struggling you will probably drop,
    if you are winning everything you will move up.

    In the memstime reward wise you are generally better off doing badly in a tough league than winning everything in the easy one.
    Some clans might have better bases but terrible attacks. Some clans are lazy and don't even fill CCs properly.

    CWL matches are based on your league. Not your clan. Over time your matchup will get more and more even.

  10. #10
    rowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodyIrishman View Post
    Clan war match making is better than its ever been before.

    If you're seeing engineering occurring in the clans you're facing you can almost guarantee there's engineering on your side as well.
    You can still be matched to Engineered Clans. We just finished a 40v40. Our bottom 3 bases were TH 8's, one 7. Their bottom 3 were defenseless 11's. Granted, we see far less engineered bases than in the past, but do still occasionally see them, none the less.

    Have not seen it since the matching changes in smaller wars, with smaller town hall spreads. From my own experince at least, not getting matched to engineered clans. So I will agree that if the TH spread is slight, or war size smaller, than yes, should not expect to be matched to an engineered clan, unless your own clan roster is also engineered.
    Last edited by rowman; 4 Weeks Ago at 11:07 AM.

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