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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Why penalize a player that chooses a way of playing?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by HonoraryGoblin View Post
    clans can match against each other more than once? so off topic sorry if clan we just faced and we both started new search at wars end we could be matched again?

    what is benefit of doing one attack? I suppose just to get the win?

    Not with the same clan, they will recreate another new clan to match themselves every time
    https://www.clashofstats.com/clans/a...LPP80/members/

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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    Should people be angry about engineers? No, not really because they are playing the game at a higher degree than other clans. What really grinds my gears is that everyone complains about engineers when they should be fighting back against the self-matching clans. I fight every war and build my bases when there are clans who will match themselves over and over and only use 1 attack. You can't fight or hunt them either because they will match themselves in minutes for a guaranteed win.
    Sam points out how they do it. But this isnt a problem for anybody other than those clans that have both the set up, and ability, to achieve those long win streaks.
    Maybe that is why nobody else cares about what they are doing.
    In most peoples view, they are no different to FWA clans.

    I have seen your set up.. impressive attention to detail.. I have watched replays of your attacks.. impressive use of limited options, coupled with good organisation.. highly skilled and dedicated bunch of guys.. and welcoming beyond belief for any guests that are visiting.. I love my visits.

    But, the dislike of engineering was built up due to 2 years of having to either adapt to that way of playing, or accept that you were likely going to lose.
    It is therefore understandable that the more maxer type will play down the achievements, as they have experience of manicured accounts being far superior on paper, and therefore giving a much easier route to success.
    I will add, that before the lop sided era, having perma max bases was also overwhelming, because the MMA made that build model the optimum way to gain advantage in war.

    But, historically, they are simply buff/nerf cycles, like everything else in the game.
    For those that seek, there will be advantage somewhere.
    Good thing is, for those that simply spin to find a war that is fairly balanced between 2 clans, then the MMA is in a good place.

    Each to their own. Through education, people should realise that extreme engineering is no longer the force that it was.
    Everybody engineers to a degree, as keeps getting pointed out.
    And those that keep mismatching against more powerful opposition, or cant match at all, need to look at what they themselves are doing, because the MM only works with what you put in.
    It is no good blaming engineers for your choices. May as well blame Alice and Bob.

  3.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #53
    Quote Originally Posted by samratulangi View Post
    Not with the same clan, they will recreate another new clan to match themselves every time
    I honestly have no idea what you are talking about here.

    Are you really suggesting there are a significant number of clans who split into two very similar ones in order to get a match between the two? The two would have to have fairly similar rosters to even have a, chance of doing that, and it could never be guaranteed.


    FWA only works because there are MANY such clans all searching at the exact same time
    Quote Originally Posted by Grill View Post
    But when something like an update is to be expected all stupid breaks loose and it just becomes an idiot storm of catastrophic proportion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Maverick View Post
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  4. #54
    Forum Veteran MajorJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    I honestly have no idea what you are talking about here.

    Are you really suggesting there are a significant number of clans who split into two very similar ones in order to get a match between the two? The two would have to have fairly similar rosters to even have a, chance of doing that, and it could never be guaranteed.


    FWA only works because there are MANY such clans all searching at the exact same time
    Significant enough to be a problem yes, NOT like FWA. last time I looked it was around 6 of the top 10 win streak clans doing this.

    They create 2 rosters with the exact same line-up top to bottom with the same TH and same troops in the winning clan and a newly formed clan, it could be all TH8 on both sides, or it could be all TH3's (seen this too).

    Then they spin in both clans at the same time guaranteeing that they will match in minutes. When war is over they delete the losing clan and move those bases to another newly formed clan and repeat the process.

    Supercell has a mechanism in place that has a cool down of approximately 2 weeks before you can match the same clan, but not players, and they subvert this by using a newly made clan each time.

    This has been a problem for YEARS and any time I bring it up people just say it does not matter, or it's like FWA or whatever. It matters alot if you have built on years of work to get to this point and there are clans above you scoring free wins and there is nothing you can do about it.

    Let's say I wanted to hunt one of these clans, even if I had the same roster I would have a 5 minute window in order to match them, and then a 50% chance to match either clan so it it basically impossible to stop them. This also happened once where a group tried to take down one of the self-matching clans in the top 10 but they matched the burner clan instead.

    You want to hear a real joke? a 120 win streak self-match clan lost his streak last week on a 0-0 tie because he forgot to attack......


    SuperCell could fix this problem by applying the cooldown to players instead of clans. Instead of not being able to match the same clan for 2-4 weeks, you should not be able to match if the opposing clan has ANY of the same PLAYERS in the same time frame. It would be a little more computationally expensive but it would only affect the self-match clans because FWA and normal clans don't have players moving clans.
    Last edited by MajorJohnson; 4 Weeks Ago at 05:05 PM.
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  5. #55
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    Likely the reason supercell doesn't do anything is because both clans are taking advantage of the matchmaker. One isn't hurting anyone except clans doing "legitimate" engineering, while those doing the legitimate engineering are hurting poorly built or poor attacking clans.

    just because one is harder to do than the other doesn't make it somehow better.

  6.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #56
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    Significant enough to be a problem yes, NOT like FWA. last time I looked it was around 6 of the top 10 win streak clans doing this.

    They create 2 rosters with the exact same line-up top to bottom with the same TH and same troops in the winning clan and a newly formed clan, it could be all TH8 on both sides, or it could be all TH3's (seen this too).

    Then they spin in both clans at the same time guaranteeing that they will match in minutes. When war is over they delete the losing clan and move those bases to another newly formed clan and repeat the process.

    Supercell has a mechanism in place that has a cool down of approximately 2 weeks before you can match the same clan, but not players, and they subvert this by using a newly made clan each time.

    This has been a problem for YEARS and any time I bring it up people just say it does not matter, or it's like FWA or whatever. It matters alot if you have built on years of work to get to this point and there are clans above you scoring free wins and there is nothing you can do about it.

    Let's say I wanted to hunt one of these clans, even if I had the same roster I would have a 5 minute window in order to match them, and then a 50% chance to match either clan so it it basically impossible to stop them. This also happened once where a group tried to take down one of the self-matching clans in the top 10 but they matched the burner clan instead.

    You want to hear a real joke? a 120 win streak self-match clan lost his streak last week on a 0-0 tie because he forgot to attack......


    SuperCell could fix this problem by applying the cooldown to players instead of clans. Instead of not being able to match the same clan for 2-4 weeks, you should not be able to match if the opposing clan has ANY of the same PLAYERS in the same time frame. It would be a little more computationally expensive but it would only affect the self-match clans because FWA and normal clans don't have players moving clans.
    That might fix it - assuming there actually is a cooldown at all, but it seems a lot of cost for something which will probably only affect single digit numbers of clans. I have to say, I'm surprised it happens at all, though I suppose with extreme rosters, it is feasible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grill View Post
    But when something like an update is to be expected all stupid breaks loose and it just becomes an idiot storm of catastrophic proportion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Maverick View Post
    Any more balance to th10 will make th10 broken...
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  7. #57
    Forum Veteran MajorJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thegreatpuma View Post
    Likely the reason supercell doesn't do anything is because both clans are taking advantage of the matchmaker. One isn't hurting anyone except clans doing "legitimate" engineering, while those doing the legitimate engineering are hurting poorly built or poor attacking clans.

    just because one is harder to do than the other doesn't make it somehow better.
    You just nailed the most common response.

    "Engineers are bad and because they all have a problem with it, self-match clans are ok because they are not hurting anyone"

    This is pretty much why my threads I have made in the past highlighting this issue have been closed down by mods "Too controversial"

    I guess if you can't beat them, join them, right?
    Last edited by MajorJohnson; 4 Weeks Ago at 05:24 PM.
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  8. #58
    I think the clans matching themselves is a problem that impacts more than just the most carefully engineered clans. It devalues all win streaks and war records. It is like the cheating account sharing player that finishes near the top of legends, it doesn't just impact the player who could have otherwise taken first place. It also impacts players like me finishing hundreds of spots lower.
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    You just nailed the most common response.

    Engineers are bad and because they all have a problem with it, self-match clans are ok.

    This is pretty much why my threads I have made in the past highlighting this issue have been closed down by mods "Too controversial"
    I would disagree with your evaluation.

    If everyone engineers to some extent, then it is pretty hard to call anyone ‘bad’. We have heard for a long time that engineering is an accepted playstyle and have been told quite directly that it is not cheating. If that is true, then how is a clan creating identical rosters so that it can match it’s mirror against the TOS? I may view it as a ton of work for zero benefit but since I wont match them, how is that any different than FWA? To me, it seems just a matter of what degree of engineering it is. Engineers attempt to get opponents that fit certain criteria, so do these clans.
    Last edited by Tosti111; 4 Weeks Ago at 05:35 PM.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Tosti111 View Post
    I would disagree with your evaluation.

    If everyone engineers to some extent, then it is pretty hard to call anyone ‘bad’. We have heard for a long time that engineering is an accepted playstyle and have been told quite directly that it is not cheating. If that is true, then how is a clan creating identical rosters so that it can match it’s mirror against the TOS? I may view it as a ton of work for zero benefit but since I wont match them, how is that any different than FWA?
    I agree not everyone is engineering because there are plenty who give the war matchmaker no thought at all (and some that don't even know there is such a thing as weight or a matchmaker). However, I do think many who take part in war are engineering, even though some might be doing it incorrectly and even though many of them don't think they are. Even the simple act of "I'm not going to drop this big defense until my offense gets farther along" is a form of engineering.

    I don't know that self-matching clans are violating the TOS, but the TOS should be changed if not. However, I doubt SC will ever invest any efforts to stop it either way.
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