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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Why penalize a player that chooses a way of playing?

  1. #11
    Forum All-Star Piper139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcusmc View Post
    SC has tried to appease everyone, CW a nonlinear, CWL linear TH12 maxers, and FCW where all the complainers can put themselves vs thier exact build. So I kinda understand the OP post being able to uniquely upgrade, build, match is good. But anything that takes away from choice in general sucks IMO. don't say engineer here it's a bad word and u will get bombarded with insults. money ultimately runs this train. You got to adapt and overcome, but as the choices get fewer so will the players IMO.
    Had supercel not reined in the rampant cookie cutter engineering, far more players would have left. A big key to good matchmaking is reducing the range of variables. A th12 with all th1 defenses and walls with minimal upgrades to troops and other buildings will be much closer to the norm for th12 than a one cannon wonder 11 with max heroes and offense (only one or two strats maxed) was. Sure, some people were building defenseless bases or very low defense weight bases for the fun of it. Most did it because it screwed up the matchmaking in their favor. Choice is good. But not when it gives you an overwhelming advantage over other players.
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  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by alcusmc View Post
    SC has tried to appease everyone, CW a nonlinear, CWL linear TH12 maxers, and FCW where all the complainers can put themselves vs thier exact build. So I kinda understand the OP post being able to uniquely upgrade, build, match is good. But anything that takes away from choice in general sucks IMO. don't say engineer here it's a bad word and u will get bombarded with insults. money ultimately runs this train. You got to adapt and overcome, but as the choices get fewer so will the players IMO.
    I have engineered accounts. No one insults me for them. I've had defenseless bases, 9.11s, .5s, all sorts of stuff over the years and all the while I supported SC fixing the flaws in the matchmaker that encouraged me to build such bases.
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  3.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Thegreatpuma View Post
    Oh, so making matchmaking fair is somehow punishing people who built defenseless bases? That's rich.
    That is how I read the OP too. Trying to make engineered clan meet other similar clans is "punishing" them for choosing the engineered play style, according to him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grill View Post
    But when something like an update is to be expected all stupid breaks loose and it just becomes an idiot storm of catastrophic proportion.
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  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by alcusmc View Post
    SC has tried to appease everyone, CW a nonlinear, CWL linear TH12 maxers, and FCW where all the complainers can put themselves vs thier exact build. So I kinda understand the OP post being able to uniquely upgrade, build, match is good. But anything that takes away from choice in general sucks IMO. don't say engineer here it's a bad word and u will get bombarded with insults. money ultimately runs this train. You got to adapt and overcome, but as the choices get fewer so will the players IMO.
    Amen too this post. I've been with SUPERCELL and their games MANY years. No, for the ones that tried to MISINTERPRET what I said, your wrong. The one I just quoted said it almos tf exactly like I meant. You know, I've had problems many of them with players over the times. NOTHING fixed. I just came here to give my general input. To help the game in general. I am a person that spends $ a p2p gamer I think it's called. I do alot here and Royale. So no that was wrong to. Anyhow, I have to leave it at that. As for the looks here, just giving my Honest input will be as you say. Bombarded. Clash on.

    P.S. the one that said positive I've got engineered base etc, that in it self shouldn't be allowed here. As your not sure, because I DO NOT have one. I've worked a long time. So please dont make assumptions. Also, the one that said this could be possibly a great discussion here, I totally agree. As long as no drama and you know etc that would be great.
    Last edited by WildHumans; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:36 AM.

  5. #15
    Millennial Club Thegreatpuma's Avatar
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    Positive discussions can only come when everyone understands what's being discussed. Can you explain, exactly, what you think super cell did to "punish" a certain set of people. Are you claiming that making war matchmaking fair is somehow penalizing players?

  6. #16
    Forum Veteran MajorJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildHumans View Post
    Amen too this post. I've been with SUPERCELL and their games MANY years. No, for the ones that tried to MISINTERPRET what I said, your wrong. The one I just quoted said it almos tf exactly like I meant. You know, I've had problems many of them with players over the times. NOTHING fixed. I just came here to give my general input. To help the game in general. I am a person that spends $ a p2p gamer I think it's called. I do alot here and Royale. So no that was wrong to. Anyhow, I have to leave it at that. As for the looks here, just giving my Honest input will be as you say. Bombarded. Clash on.

    P.S. the one that said positive I've got engineered base etc, that in it self shouldn't be allowed here. As your not sure, because I DO NOT have one. I've worked a long time. So please dont make assumptions. Also, the one that said this could be possibly a great discussion here, I totally agree. As long as no drama and you know etc that would be great.
    People are making assumptions about what kind of bases you have because they don't understand what you are talking about or referring to, I still don't understand what you mean.

    I think you should take out all the long-winded stuff and use paragraphs and spaces in your posts.
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildHumans View Post
    Amen too this post. I've been with SUPERCELL and their games MANY years. No, for the ones that tried to MISINTERPRET what I said, your wrong. The one I just quoted said it almos tf exactly like I meant. You know, I've had problems many of them with players over the times. NOTHING fixed. I just came here to give my general input. To help the game in general. I am a person that spends $ a p2p gamer I think it's called. I do alot here and Royale. So no that was wrong to. Anyhow, I have to leave it at that. As for the looks here, just giving my Honest input will be as you say. Bombarded. Clash on.

    P.S. the one that said positive I've got engineered base etc, that in it self shouldn't be allowed here. As your not sure, because I DO NOT have one. I've worked a long time. So please dont make assumptions. Also, the one that said this could be possibly a great discussion here, I totally agree. As long as no drama and you know etc that would be great.
    I agree with you in principal.
    However, they had to do something to stop people from manipulating the match maker, before they dropped TH12.
    Just imagine how bad it would have been, if they had allowed 60/60/30 heroes onto those 1 cannon wonder bases.

    They tried to tweak the MMA to take away the impossible advantage that lop sided accounts had.
    Using purely weight based matching is prone to manipulation, once somebody cracks the code.
    History shows that the attempt was unable to curb that advantage. (And there are some ingenious guys, even amongst the regular posters here).

    So, there had to be more to matching than simply assigning different weights, if fair matching was the goal.
    It is impossible to have the number of variables that were possible with the old system, and expect to conjure up matches that can swing either way, dependant on clan skill in base building and attacking.
    Hence the build all policy.
    The lop sided advantage simply had to be met head on.
    It was killing the game for anyone that didnt employ the "cant beat them join them" approach.
    The advantage was simply too overwhelming.

    Fast forward to the present..
    They have improved the MMA considerably now.
    It is fine tuned, in most cases, to being " you draw what you put out", within a reasonable tolerance.

    Nothing wrong with that.. No longer can you low load your roster, and dilute the top end of the oppo roster, to give prep day advantage.
    No longer can you dismiss defence, and have your max troops, with those max heroes, stomp all over bases that are 2 halls below them.

    Roster engineers can still match, so long as there is another roster engineer running a similar line up.
    Lop sided engineers can still match, so long as other lop siders are spinning at the same time.
    But the other good thing is, those that spin with balanced rosters, using balanced accounts, are most likely to draw likewise.

    So, what is unfair about that system?
    If you cant match, it is because nobody else has a similar break down, not that SC are blocking the search.
    Commonality is determined by the player base, thru their build choices, not by anything SC have done.

    So, I read that you have no engineered accounts, and I agree there should be no drama.
    Anyones opinion is both valid and welcome.
    It is your thread, enjoy.

  8. #18
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    Are you asking why the clans the purposely try to get an unfair advantage in war don't get thr unfair advantage? Frustrating isn't it? You know how frustrated all of us where when clans were gaming the system to get easy wins?

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by BIZmarkIE View Post
    Are you asking why the clans the purposely try to get an unfair advantage in war don't get thr unfair advantage? Frustrating isn't it? You know how frustrated all of us where when clans were gaming the system to get easy wins?
    My earler post was deleted because mods thought it was a troll. Sorry, I didn't mean to do that.
    I want to ask seriously.
    Why do people think it's unfair? When a maxer and an engineer started the game same with a single canon. Then they went different paths. Is it right to blame others for consequences of your choice?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverlucky28338 View Post
    My earler post was deleted because mods thought it was a troll. Sorry, I didn't mean to do that.
    I want to ask seriously.
    Why do people think it's unfair? When a maxer and an engineer started the game same with a single canon. Then they went different paths. Is it right to blame others for consequences of your choice?
    I have no problem with different paths. Different options. Different priorities. Each path should have equal upside and down side. For example, maxing slows you down. There is no doubt that strategic rushing can get you to complete max faster than maxing. The strategic rusher gives up some flexibility in attack options for faster progression. The maxer gives up faster progression for great flexibility. Oh minion event. Got them leveled up. War impact is debatable. Neither causes great shifts. The strategic rusher can probably hit harder and the maxer can possibly defend better. Farming, call it even. No real difference.
    Keep in mind I'm talking about average or a bit above average clans here. Different paths. But, no huge advantage. Now, lets look at the hyper rush / one cannon wonder. Very high offense. Super low to low defense. Smart ones had just enough traps, teslas and cc to zap the 7s and 8s facing them. If the truly just had the 1 cannon, not too bad. A low base could at least pick them off. The smart ones totally negated the low base they "matched" with. However, their high heroes and offense allowed them to hit two high level bases and allow mid levels to smash baby seals. The matchmaker could not figure out how to accurately weight their impact. Wars were lost before a shot was fired due to this. We were very close to quitting wars and maybe the game over it. I've seen many suggestions that might have solved it without the nuclear option supercel chose. Despite that change, the good engineers survive. I doubt they were the cookie cutter defenseless anyway. As far as the everyone could do it option, sure. If people have the time. Or inclination. Rambling a bit here. Basically, the defenseless base negated most other play styles for war. If it had instead of carrying a th7 weight and had perhaps a th10, yeah, an advantage. But not instant win advantage.

    Summary. I don't think any play style should have a "I win" advantage over others. Not maxing, not strategic rushing, not engineering. Rock, paper, scissors with some wiggle room for planned upgrades, groomed war rosters, etc. Especially not I put two defenseless in a war and I win. Now if they could have matched that with similar rosters and left the rest of us muddling along out of it, different story.
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