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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Is game progression too fast now?!?!?

  1. #151
    Base progression is really fast, but labs are slow. Labs already take over twice as long as buildings, and with so many items available for building and in the Gold Pass it is probably an even higher gap. I would love to see a lab potion, or spell upgrades moved to the spell factory for a more balanced progression. New players need balanced progression to stay competitive, and I am sure they will be happy to pay for the opportunity to catch up quickly. Max players don't really have much need to spend any $$$ now on anything other than Gold passes, and maybe gems for 1 gem donations. I think having the spell factory doing spell research would actually increase gems spent on lab, as I find I am always much more likely to Gem an upgrade if it is part way through and I have a war hit coming up. Everyone is going to be getting very nice walls with the season banks, and new players are going to have terrible armies that cant compete with bases that look the same as their own, unless they invest heavily in a single army composition.

  2. #152
    Millennial Club LordSk's Avatar
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    Dec 2016
    Too big a spread of town halls always has been bad in regular clan wars, and is even worse in CWL. So probably playing 2x 15x15 is better, but can both be an organisational nightmare, as a social one: half the clan is elsewhere during a week.

    The CWL is more fun for a TH 10 up then it is for 9 and lower, especially once you get to crystal (or higher). My own TH 9 has mostly faced TH 10 and 11 bases, and had zero stars so far. On the other hand my TH 12 has had a blast so far.

    The OP did not ask for the right format though, but whether CWL promotes rushing. That question has been answered.

  3. #153
    CWL medals really helps in pushing, i will get mine in 48 hours.

  4. #154
    Appreciate all the responses and discussion produced. I do agree I am concerned for normal wars - we have some TH12s with questionable strategic minds... good enough to 3star TH11s in CWL but in a like for like match we will see.

    From last month to this month we increased our TH12 count for CWL three fold from 6 to 17. Now going into the final round we are undefeated and have an 86star lead. At this point we would basically not show for round 7 and we couldn't lose!

  5. #155
    Forum Contender JusMe's Avatar
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    Feb 2017
    amongst the stars
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaronjs View Post
    I hope thatís true. Source?
    You did read the 'just kidding' part? Not sure why, but some people just like to throw bait out and see who bites...
    Last edited by JusMe; May 8th, 2019 at 08:21 AM. Reason: changed full stop to question mark

  6. #156
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Yes It was, Compared when I started playing way back 2014.
    Watch my Most Recent Upload here! - Click me!

  7. #157
    Skrags's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    221B Baker Street
    Quote Originally Posted by OnyxDS View Post
    I'm not sure there's much we can add to what the wikia has on the cumulative costs page:
    And you can look at the history of that page to see some historical values (although in some old pages the tables are missing?)

    For example, some simple totals are:
    Total Lab time (days) Build time (5 huts)
    Now 1127 709
    June 2017 1063 753
    July 2014 435 493

    So the game has gotten a LOT longer since I started in early 2014, but has somewhat stabilized over the last couple of years - when SC started the large cost reductions.

    In "the good old days" TH9 took forever - the wall and hero grind was real. However TH9 was also the place to be. At TH10 a 3* in war was so hard it was near proof of cheating (and Th11 didn't exist). So it was OK to be at TH9 for a year+. My clan at times had 40v wars with 20-25 TH9s in there.
    These days "TH9 is the new TH8" and no longer considered of any real interest at war. Player leagues and events usually require TH10 minimum (as does my clan, for example). So in some ways you now need to be TH10 to actually start playing the game. So it's essential it doesn't take years to get there.

    Some people have mentioned loot in this thread. And one oddity at the moment is that loot seems to be a serious impediment only at TH9. In reality TH9 is usually much slower than the raw build times, due to the DE cost. Here's the DE cost per TH broken down:
    TH DE cost Time to max TH (days) DE/day DE/day above drill production
    8 422k 81 5.2k 3.0k
    9 4417k 128 34.5k 29.7k
    10 4360k 238 18.3k 9.7k
    11 5555k 281 19.8k 11.1k
    12 6570k 338 19.4k 10.8k

    And consider that a TH12 is likely to gain 5k DE per raid (the league bonus alone is 2k, plus 4k 5*star bonus in Titans) whereas my TH9-gone-TH10 has to next a fair bit sometimes to get 3k from a raid (plus 200 bonus and 1200 5* bonus), and you can see that a TH12 needs to do a couple of raids a day; whereas a TH9 can need 9-10 (and the number of people doing that many raids consistently is negligible)

    Books of course have speeded things up. However I think they may be of less benefit to new players than some TH12 players think. At TH9, for example, many upgrades are just 2-3 days. Even at TH10 they vary from 2 days to about 7. Labs at TH10 are around 5-8 days, less at TH9. So a book doesn't gain a huge amount of time. It's never worth buying books from the trader below TH10 (and VERY rarely at TH10) - as it's simply cheaper to directly gem. The 1 or 2 books available from clan games each month are, of course a benefit, but we're talking only about a few days here and there.

    CWL medals are also a benefit. And buying builder potions with medals is very effective in places. However, again, I suspect near-max players may have a skewed view of how beneficial this is.
    Consider a TH12 in an all-TH12 clan, which should be in Champ 3 (or higher). 4th place gives 403 medals/month, which would buy 2.44 hero books. The middle AQ upgrade at TH12 is 216k DE, so that works out to around 527k worth of DE/month from those books.
    If a TH9 is in a clan of similar bases they'll maybe be in Gold 2 (actually often much lower). 4th place gives 124 medals per month, which is 0.75 hero books. Level 20 AQ upgrade is 90k DE. So that's around 67k DE/month benefit if using CWL to do heroes.
    Or if you do the same comparison for the lab, if you use CWL medals to buy troop/spell hammers (which is a good idea as lab is usually the slowest thing), then TH12 can save 47 lab/days per month. But TH9 saves only 5 days per month.
    So, if you focus CWL rewards in one areas, at TH12 you can easily double your rate of progress in that area. At TH9, for example, you might speed it up by 10%-20%.

    I have a TH12 which isn't max but is getting there - and farming TH12 is laughably easy these days. The nature of books and hammers completing entire upgrades means these make a dramatic difference at TH12. In fact I don't really farm my TH12 account at all - I do wars, and raid to complete events and not much more than that is needed to keep it upgrading. The only thing that takes any effort at TH12 is walls. DE is a joke - it's impossible to give it away fast enough.
    Whereas lower the lower TH still need effort. I did a boost session on my new-TH10 today; I haven't done that on my TH12 for at least a year. Progress is quicker through TH9 than it was long ago - but it needs to be because TH9 is now just part of the prologue before you actually start playing anything interesting.

    So for anyone looking from a TH12-only perspective and thinking it's very easy; I'd say you're right for TH12. Farming TH12 has become laughably easy. The price reductions at lower TH were needed to give new players any prospect of playing something interesting. The lack of any (real) price reductions in the heroes is, however, currently a problem.
    Fantastic stuff Onyx (as usual), and I completely agree. The highlighted text in red, and your DE chart tells it's own story!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkpye View Post
    So many times you hear the same rhetoric, "Back in my day things where so much harder and that was so much better."

    Frankly, most of the time it is said by someone who has become upset that all the hard work they put in is now worth less.
    Or I'd suggest, such words are posted only by players who consider themselves, and not the community as a whole or the longevity of the game!
    Clan Name : SOUTH WEST 45, Clan Tag : #90LP2PL. Highest Win Streak 12!
    Clan Details : Established 2012! Adult, English speaking International Level 15 War Clan (twice a week). Recruitment Thread : My Spec : Early TH12.

  8. #158
    Skrags's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    221B Baker Street
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexTrickle View Post
    . I was an engineered TH11 - no eagle, no infernos and pretty much max troops for TH11. Rejoined my old serious war clan and discovered the wonder of CWL. I loved the concept but immediately was not allowed in any round as it was only 15v15 and they only took the highest TH12s.
    Firstly, with the exception of all TH12 rosters, CWL is in essence a farming tool for base progression, just like Clan Games and Season Challenges, with the added incentive to try and enjoy a war environment.
    Whether rushing is advantageous really depends upon your roster as a whole.

    Your lopsided TH11 was a disadvantage for CWL within a heavy TH12 roster, but was also a disadvantage for random wars within such a roster, since the MM changes made during the last year or so.
    Those TH11 War troops/spells/camps plus your presumably max Warden would not be pulling some sort of TH10 in the current MM climate, regardless of those missing defences.

    Can engineering still be viable in 2019 in random wars? - Yes, in the right hands, probably with static balanced bases, but the cut and paste volume lopsided accounts that were so prominent after March 2016 have been nerfed.

    Back to CWL, would I advise players to rush to TH12 purely for playing in the CWL environment? - Yes, I would.
    Would I advise players who enjoy all aspects of the game, including random wars, to rush to TH12? - No, I would not.

    I'd also suggest that CWL encourages players to drop defences, and not always to rush to TH12.

    As always, everything is roster dependent, and the goals of your Clan, and yourself individually need to be observed!
    Good luck!
    Clan Name : SOUTH WEST 45, Clan Tag : #90LP2PL. Highest Win Streak 12!
    Clan Details : Established 2012! Adult, English speaking International Level 15 War Clan (twice a week). Recruitment Thread : My Spec : Early TH12.

  9. #159
    Centennial Club
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Itís funny. When I brought this up a few months ago everyone disagreed with me for the most part. Seems the tides may be changing?

    You give an inch, theyíll take your smile.......

  10. #160
    Centennial Club
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    I like that my rushed donating 12 can participate in war a week out of every month and now I am actually putting effort into getting it decent, but I have not thought for a second to rush my other accounts. I feel generally clans will fall into about the same tier they belong especially now that only one clan gets promoted so I don't feel it's that important to rush just for cwl.

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