There Is No Matchmaking In CWL!

[Peppapiggy]

It is hard to define "right" tier. Is that clan with all those th12 dominating and in first place by a long way?

Dominating... 60.star lead after 3 wars

[joshsgrandad]

Sorry no.. That was to klavious

lol.. was gonna say.. dont come crying to me, when one of my bases sticks in your bases throat, and it chokes to death.

Thx josh and i agree with all your points and sentiments. My frustration comes from cwl being 12 months in.. We all being assured that clans will be in there right tier soon enough but when.. Its simply not materialising.. I also like the improvements and adjusts i think it needs 1 more though... And not where a th8 clan can reach champs lol. More of. A Weighted threshold rather than multiple brackets within tiers which is what i thought you meant, makes sense.. Clans fielding above certain weighted roster would be grouped together. Let them fight amongst themselves and let others have more of a chance to advance.. Nowt wrong with that.. Im sure SC didnt plan on 29th 12s blocking top spots a year into this

This has been discussed often.. Only concern is that there are clans that simply cant fight their weight..
They are already hamstrung for random spin, since they cant match skill vs skill..
For those clans, cwl, with its non weight restriction, gives them a chance to fight with a leg up..
I am good with that.. support the little guy (and girl).

We also need to consider, cwl weights/base sizes are growing rapidly.. Already a full house of 12s is becoming necessary for Masters..
Very soon, that weight requirement is gonna filter down into Crystal.. those guys blocking your path will be common place soon.

Dominating... 60.star lead after 3 wars

At least they are heading in the right direction..
Maybe they are a drop out from M3, or maybe they found a recruitment tool that actually works

[2222]

Dominating... 60.star lead after 3 wars

So, they will be up and out of that tier next season, that's good.

[Klavious]

Ok mate.. In lamens terms then. Lets simplify my point. I will put a 100 pound up and you put a 100 dollars up.. Lets have a friendly war.. My champs 2 clan on a 37 streak against your clan in a 30 v 30... However.. I get 29 war veteran th12s and you must have 12 x th12s.. 5 are new 12s..rest th11s and 5 th10s. Oooo and may the best clan win. And dont dare suggest its unfair as if you want to win the prize you must fight for it.. Deal?

Tempting but I think I’ll pass.
But feel free to lose every match of the the next 7 CWL season and drop down to try your little experiment.

[OnyxDS]

Late to this thread, but I can't resist...

Well its only day 1 of cwl and the first clan in cwl has 29 th12s vs our 12 and they are all well developed..
....

12 TH12s in C1? Twelve?? A whole dozen!?! Young kids of today don't know how good they have it. When I were a lad (well, about 3 seasons ago) we had none at all - sometimes facing 22 or 24 TH12s. Did we grumble? By 'eck we did!
Even today we have 8 - 1 comically rushed, and the other 7 low: they are the ones too low to make our main clan roster; for example they have 2 max eagles, and 2 max cannons between all 7.

Thx josh and i agree with all your points and sentiments. My frustration comes from cwl being 12 months in.. We all being assured that clans will be in there right tier soon enough but when.. Its simply not materialising..

This I agree with. I don't see it settling down much. To put some numbers on it, here is the distribution for number of TH12s in crystal 1 30v30 wars. These are the actual war rosters, not the clan's weekly roster, and I analysed every single C1 30v war in those seasons:

Number TH12s	June C1	Aug C1	Oct C1
30	0.11%	0.19%	0.35%
29	0.05%	0.11%	0.21%
28	0.07%	0.10%	0.22%
27	0.12%	0.18%	0.40%
26	0.08%	0.23%	0.49%
25	0.18%	0.33%	0.65%
24	0.24%	0.48%	0.97%
23	0.30%	0.76%	1.35%
22	0.40%	0.97%	1.78%
21	0.51%	1.15%	2.40%
20	0.75%	1.76%	3.07%
19	1.12%	2.11%	3.71%
18	1.42%	3.03%	4.77%
17	2.12%	3.64%	5.39%
16	2.61%	4.84%	6.48%
15	3.45%	5.85%	7.52%
14	4.45%	6.71%	7.82%
13	5.68%	7.60%	8.07%
12	6.83%	8.46%	8.09%
11	8.32%	8.87%	7.90%
10	9.70%	8.79%	7.33%
9	10.67%	8.49%	6.37%
8	10.21%	7.30%	5.13%
7	9.69%	6.05%	3.30%
6	7.47%	4.62%	2.56%
5	5.75%	3.31%	1.67%
4	3.61%	1.90%	0.99%
3	2.23%	1.10%	0.51%
2	1.07%	0.58%	0.27%
1	0.55%	0.33%	0.14%
0	0.24%	0.18%	0.05%

The percentages are the percentage of war rosters with that many TH12s in that month. As you can see the number of TH12s is increasing steadily - in June 8 or 9 was most common, now it's 12 or 13. Full 30xTH12 is still rare, but becomes 3 times as common over these months.

So I don't see it settling down much.

More of. A Weighted threshold rather than multiple brackets within tiers which is what i thought you meant, makes sense.. Clans fielding above certain weighted roster would be grouped together. Let them fight amongst themselves and let others have more of a chance to advance.. Nowt wrong with that.. Im sure SC didnt plan on 29th 12s blocking top spots a year into this

But... I don't see how adding some weighting to CWL can work. The non-matched aspect is pretty fundamental to it. And the reality is many of the massively overweight clans are truly hopeless. When my junior clan has been in C1 30v and stupidly outgunned we've still typically come mid table.

When SC changed the rewards to penalise sandbagging that was a crucial change - until then there was a real danger of strong clans camping low. But now there's no (or very little) point.

The reality is that CWL is a ladder. You can't keep winning. Many of us have the mentality from regular war that we play to win. But in a ladder, by definition, over a sufficiently long time scale your win rate is 50%. It may be why true ladder systems don't seem hugely popular (BhB, CR...).

In a ladder it feels like you meet some impediment (over strong opponent). But if that impediment was removed, there must be some other factor that comes into play pretty soon to stop infinite upwards progress again - unless you are truly the #1 clan in the world.

[Peppapiggy]

Late to this thread, but I can't resist...



12 TH12s in C1? Twelve?? A whole dozen!?! Young kids of today don't know how good they have it. When I were a lad (well, about 3 seasons ago) we had none at all - sometimes facing 22 or 24 TH12s. Did we grumble? By 'eck we did!
Even today we have 8 - 1 comically rushed, and the other 7 low: they are the ones too low to make our main clan roster; for example they have 2 max eagles, and 2 max cannons between all 7.



This I agree with. I don't see it settling down much. To put some numbers on it, here is the distribution for number of TH12s in crystal 1 30v30 wars. These are the actual war rosters, not the clan's weekly roster, and I analysed every single C1 30v war in those seasons:

Number TH12s	June C1	Aug C1	Oct C1
30	0.11%	0.19%	0.35%
29	0.05%	0.11%	0.21%
28	0.07%	0.10%	0.22%
27	0.12%	0.18%	0.40%
26	0.08%	0.23%	0.49%
25	0.18%	0.33%	0.65%
24	0.24%	0.48%	0.97%
23	0.30%	0.76%	1.35%
22	0.40%	0.97%	1.78%
21	0.51%	1.15%	2.40%
20	0.75%	1.76%	3.07%
19	1.12%	2.11%	3.71%
18	1.42%	3.03%	4.77%
17	2.12%	3.64%	5.39%
16	2.61%	4.84%	6.48%
15	3.45%	5.85%	7.52%
14	4.45%	6.71%	7.82%
13	5.68%	7.60%	8.07%
12	6.83%	8.46%	8.09%
11	8.32%	8.87%	7.90%
10	9.70%	8.79%	7.33%
9	10.67%	8.49%	6.37%
8	10.21%	7.30%	5.13%
7	9.69%	6.05%	3.30%
6	7.47%	4.62%	2.56%
5	5.75%	3.31%	1.67%
4	3.61%	1.90%	0.99%
3	2.23%	1.10%	0.51%
2	1.07%	0.58%	0.27%
1	0.55%	0.33%	0.14%
0	0.24%	0.18%	0.05%

The percentages are the percentage of war rosters with that many TH12s in that month. As you can see the number of TH12s is increasing steadily - in June 8 or 9 was most common, now it's 12 or 13. Full 30xTH12 is still rare, but becomes 3 times as common over these months.

So I don't see it settling down much.



But... I don't see how adding some weighting to CWL can work. The non-matched aspect is pretty fundamental to it. And the reality is many of the massively overweight clans are truly hopeless. When my junior clan has been in C1 30v and stupidly outgunned we've still typically come mid table.

When SC changed the rewards to penalise sandbagging that was a crucial change - until then there was a real danger of strong clans camping low. But now there's no (or very little) point.

The reality is that CWL is a ladder. You can't keep winning. Many of us have the mentality from regular war that we play to win. But in a ladder, by definition, over a sufficiently long time scale your win rate is 50%. It may be why true ladder systems don't seem hugely popular (BhB, CR...).

In a ladder it feels like you meet some impediment (over strong opponent). But if that impediment was removed, there must be some other factor that comes into play pretty soon to stop infinite upwards progress again - unless you are truly the #1 clan in the world.

Some great info with that chart there thanks. Suppose it is just rotten luck that we happen to pull a 0.21% clan that sadly for us and the other 5 clans, are not a bunch off rushed clowns . As a vociferous protester to the old mma i still cant accept that its unfixable though. A pure weight threshold coupled with a comhined hero level number to filter out the rushers could be added. That way a heavy but nooby th12 roster with 20 20 10 heros wouldnt be flagged as a oopsie and thrown to the wolves. Im sure there are ways

[joshsgrandad]

Some great info with that chart there thanks. Suppose it is just rotten luck that we happen to pull a 0.21% clan that sadly for us and the other 5 clans, are not a bunch off rushed clowns . As a vociferous protester to the old mma i still cant accept that its unfixable though. A pure weight threshold coupled with a comhined hero level number to filter out the rushers could be added. That way a heavy but nooby th12 roster with 20 20 10 heros wouldnt be flagged as a oopsie and thrown to the wolves. Im sure there are ways

First off.. Congrats to Onyx, once again.. those stats are always amazing..
Quick question.. How many clans?.. just to put the figures into context..

Ok Peppa (Seems strange talking to one of my grandsons fave characters about clash)..

First off.. we are truly on the same page regarding the old MMA.. It was terrible..
I think we agree they turned it around nicely tho, for those that keep things balanced..

CWL, on the other hand, is more marmite.. It is unweighted, you draw randomly within a tier, and there dont seem a lot of point to it, unless you are pushing Champs, or like the medals and double bonus..
But changing the basic set up, ie introducing any sort of weight cap, would alter the dynamics.. Good for a war clans mini accounts to push on, but it would throw all emphasis onto playing skill, rather than performance, which is basically skill plus progression..

i do feel SC are using this format in order to put the emphasis on progression, hence the great rewards.. But as a nice side effect, as already stated, it allows those that cant win regular war to flex bigger muscles, and utilise sheer power as a means of winning..

Sure, those clans could practice and improve, but so too could the weight conscious clans increase their weight, if parity with these heavy "troll" clans were desired.. Although I dont personally consider them trolls.. They simply chose cwl as their preferred war system, and bigger is better..

As Onyx's lists show, there is a big upward curve in roster weights occurring.. Soon, it wont matter whether they introduced any form of buffers, as the weight requirements per tier will grow naturally.. No more overly heavy rosters.. No more trolls.. No more need for restrictions..

[OnyxDS]

Quick question.. How many clans?.. just to put the figures into context..

IIRC it went from just under 70000 rosters in the first to just over in the last - so that would be about 10000 clans.

[joshsgrandad]

IIRC it went from just under 70000 rosters in the first to just over in the last - so that would be about 10000 clans.

absolutely outstanding Onyx.. Thanks.

looks like somebody else's group is in the same boat Peppa, and 3 groups got hit harder mate..
The times, they are a changin', as the lyrics go.

[Thegreatpuma]

Why is this not merged with the sticky?

https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...king-In-CWL%21