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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: why does supercell try to say the cwl is skill based

  1. #171
    Mynameisnotjimmy
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    Just play. It will work out.

    I wrote a long text but got an error posting. The below summarises the point.

    This is not different to joining your local sporting club with a team. Within 2 or 3 seasons teams find there place. The effort to drop then climb leagues comes at a big time, fun, and reward cost that just isn't worth it. For clans that choose It, you can have the heartache.

    JUST PLAY. Enjoy your rewards.

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    Yes, but those more advanced clans in the tier have less skill than the less advanced clans.
    In the case where they dropped from the higher tier the season before, they dropped not because they have less skill than you, but because they have less skill + strength than the other clans in their higher tier division the season before. Maybe they're less skilled than you, maybe not.

    But the situation I was envisioning was due to clan composition changes, not stronger clans dropping due to losses.


    Quote Originally Posted by Warios View Post
    The goal is to get stars, winning is just a little more of a bonus. if you can win 4/7 ot 5/7 and stay static in your tier, your doing good. If you win your tier, you are doing great. It's the overall picture that matters.
    Different people have different goals. I want to farm rewards (loot and medals) and have fun (win wars). But this is orthogonal to the question I was responding to, which was, why I think a bunch of wars are going to be decided on prep day. My job as strategist and leader is to figure out how to make sure they are decided on prep day in my clan's favor.


    Quote Originally Posted by Noctaire View Post
    I just do not understand how you guys could think the outcomes are predetermined. There’s no way of knowing what roster will be fielded - especially when it can be changed just minutes before Battle Day begins. Mixed clans in the lower to mid leagues will have less potential entrants to choose from; if one of their top 15 go down, they may either still have to run them or bring in a lower level TH that is not well suited for the opposing rosters in that tier (say...bringing in a TH7 in Crystal III, for example). If the selection truly is random, as SC has stated, that makes it even less predetermined.
    Maybe the issue is the word "predetermined"? There are some disadvantages that cannot be overcome with skill, unless maybe the other clan fails to attack, or uses all FWA bases, something like that. A 5/5/5 clan up against an all-TH12 clan is one of those.

    Look at all the threads that used to be in the war forum about wars decided on prep day, people complaining about engineering due to a one TH11 discrepancy, and so on. There are going to be much bigger discrepancies than one TH11, from time to time, some in your favor, some not in your favor. Don't get me wrong: I'm not claiming that the odds will always be against you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sammydict View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Vikingchief View Post
    You could argue at even skill field strength will always determine the outcome, where at even strengh field skill will always determine the outcome,
    Could you possibly enlighten me on that logic, assumption whatever it's (Bold underlined)?
    I interpret his statement to mean that if two clans have the same skill, the winner will be the one with the most strength.

  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by littledoctor View Post
    In the case where they dropped from the higher tier the season before, they dropped not because they have less skill than you, but because they have less skill + strength than the other clans in their higher tier division the season before. Maybe they're less skilled than you, maybe not.

    But the situation I was envisioning was due to clan composition changes, not stronger clans dropping due to losses.




    Different people have different goals. I want to farm rewards (loot and medals) and have fun (win wars). But this is orthogonal to the question I was responding to, which was, why I think a bunch of wars are going to be decided on prep day. My job as strategist and leader is to figure out how to make sure they are decided on prep day in my clan's favor.




    Maybe the issue is the word "predetermined"? There are some disadvantages that cannot be overcome with skill, unless maybe the other clan fails to attack, or uses all FWA bases, something like that. A 5/5/5 clan up against an all-TH12 clan is one of those.

    Look at all the threads that used to be in the war forum about wars decided on prep day, people complaining about engineering due to a one TH11 discrepancy, and so on. There are going to be much bigger discrepancies than one TH11, from time to time, some in your favor, some not in your favor. Don't get me wrong: I'm not claiming that the odds will always be against you.




    I interpret his statement to mean that if two clans have the same skill, the winner will be the one with the most strength.
    seem you take it careful and serious at detail
    no surprise if your clan win

    what league you're competing next season???

  4.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaledonian View Post
    How do the 3 higher tiers fill up without promotions outnumbering demotions? 2 up from all tiers, but no demotion from the bottom tier.



    You're at the right place, for the moment. If you hang around in your current tier as all the heavyweights gravitate towards Champions, there will be a lot less weight at lower levels. You'll find that you'll move up a tier or two reasonably quickly. Because that's how it's been designed.
    Masters 1 wil! Shrink initially, Bronze 3 will also shrink. Champions will of course grow as masters 1 shrinks All other leagues will remain pretty static in size - Silver 3 will grow a little due to 3 promtions to ut, but only 2 relegations from it.
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    But when something like an update is to be expected all stupid breaks loose and it just becomes an idiot storm of catastrophic proportion.
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  5. #175
    One part of cwl that helps to make it more skill based than normal wars, is that players only have one attack. Drop a star down low and it remains dropped, unless something is dropped elsewhere. The skill of making a decent base and choice of cc troops suddenly becomes meaningful.

    in addition, no scouts means more thinking on the fly, more consideration given to “what if” scenarios during an attack.

    strength is and will remain a big part of the equation, but in comparison to normal wars, IMO skill plays a much bigger part in cwl.

  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by wynnsiensheng View Post
    One part of cwl that helps to make it more skill based than normal wars, is that players only have one attack. Drop a star down low and it remains dropped, unless something is dropped elsewhere. The skill of making a decent base and choice of cc troops suddenly becomes meaningful.

    in addition, no scouts means more thinking on the fly, more consideration given to “what if” scenarios during an attack.

    strength is and will remain a big part of the equation, but in comparison to normal wars, IMO skill plays a much bigger part in cwl.
    Luck plays a much bigger role as well. Normally it's unwise to put all your air traps in one area, but in SC CWL, by luck it might mess up the one attack allocated to your base.

    If I had to characterize the impact of one attack per base, I would say it removes margin for error.

    Luck in opponent composition also plays a major role. Hopefully you don't match one of the clans who omitted their five TH12s from season one in order to place low, and is now adding them back in for season two.

  7. #177
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    First post on the forums for a long time. Been reading them a bit but not to the extent I have in the past. One thing I've read in this thread is the notion that the 1st cwl tried to match the top 15 in each clan? Really?
    I could not see anything of a match, more, as Storm likes to say, a find.

    We put in all our 12s and 11s and 10s to give us flexibility. We had 8 x th12s, 4 of which were brand new 12s with not even a camp done. Two clans in our group had 15 th12s with the weakest 4 as strong as our top 4.
    A 3rd had all th12s but some not much stronger than max 11s.

    Going toe to toe on an even playing field, my clan can hold their own with the best of them but you cannot overcome a 7 townhall deficit with skill and experience.

    I appreciate this was the 1st draw and tourney but skill never came into it. Yes our 11s 2 starred the 12s and our 12s got their fair share of triples but when your enemy walks over 7 of your bases (our th11s) with max th12 heroes, 'skill' is right out the window I'm afraid.

    I can concede that there is skill involved to an extent with only having one hit each but you cannot overcome a defence to offence deficit to the degree clans have faced.

    So at present, until the leagues 'settle down', it is not a skilled based cwl, it is a th12 based cwl, certainly from master 1 up.

    I have my fingers crossed for the future of the cwl and we will wait patiently for that day when we pit skill against skill rather paper versus scissors.

  8. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLandofNod View Post
    First post on the forums for a long time. Been reading them a bit but not to the extent I have in the past. One thing I've read in this thread is the notion that the 1st cwl tried to match the top 15 in each clan? Really?
    I could not see anything of a match, more, as Storm likes to say, a find.

    We put in all our 12s and 11s and 10s to give us flexibility. We had 8 x th12s, 4 of which were brand new 12s with not even a camp done. Two clans in our group had 15 th12s with the weakest 4 as strong as our top 4.
    A 3rd had all th12s but some not much stronger than max 11s.

    Going toe to toe on an even playing field, my clan can hold their own with the best of them but you cannot overcome a 7 townhall deficit with skill and experience.

    I appreciate this was the 1st draw and tourney but skill never came into it. Yes our 11s 2 starred the 12s and our 12s got their fair share of triples but when your enemy walks over 7 of your bases (our th11s) with max th12 heroes, 'skill' is right out the window I'm afraid.

    I can concede that there is skill involved to an extent with only having one hit each but you cannot overcome a defence to offence deficit to the degree clans have faced.

    So at present, until the leagues 'settle down', it is not a skilled based cwl, it is a th12 based cwl, certainly from master 1 up.

    I have my fingers crossed for the future of the cwl and we will wait patiently for that day when we pit skill against skill rather paper versus scissors.
    Welcome back. Just a point of clarification. The top 15 in the roster were used to place clans into the tiers (Masters 1, 2, 3, etc.). However, the 7 other clans you matched with for your particular league were not “matched” by anything other than the fact that they were in your tier and perhaps started a search around the same time as your clan did. So, there definitely will be more variation than there is in regular wars.

    Contact SC here. Click here for how trophies are calculated. How is war map placement of max halls determined?, see answer here. Thank you SC for the new legends! However, how to fight collusion here.

  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by littledoctor View Post
    Maybe the issue is the word "predetermined"? There are some disadvantages that cannot be overcome with skill, unless maybe the other clan fails to attack, or uses all FWA bases, something like that. A 5/5/5 clan up against an all-TH12 clan is one of those.

    Look at all the threads that used to be in the war forum about wars decided on prep day, people complaining about engineering due to a one TH11 discrepancy, and so on. There are going to be much bigger discrepancies than one TH11, from time to time, some in your favor, some not in your favor. Don't get me wrong: I'm not claiming that the odds will always be against you.
    I get the underdog complex - it’s been a major issue for my clans in classic CWs for some time. However, the outcome is still not predetermined and we’re not simply talking semantics here either.

    Is a 5/5/5 vs 15 TH12s an underdog scenario? Probably; I would assume that we’re talking 15 relatively mature TH12s in the examples given and that they all attack. Therein, however, lies the issue - that is usually not the case.

    I think we can all agree that the initial seeding was messy and that it was expected. I would hope we can agree that it will take 3-6 seasons for folks to move about and clans to find their peered league/tier. But this notion that mixed clans will face all these matches where they are such underdogs that the outcome is inevitable is just bogus.

    Setting aside the whole “underdogs don’t win” debate.... Mixed clans have a mix of strength and skill - that’s going to be the case on both sides of the equation. Even more importantly - 6 months from now, a mixed clan will almost certainly never come up against an opponent with 15 TH12s. (Unless they’re all heavily rushed and probably poor attackers.) A true/clear underdog status will be largely indeterminable simply because of the heavy mix of TH levels and arguable at best.

    You mention the debates on the war forum; I see this as similar. In classic CWs, some have argued that the presence of 1 or 2 engineered games throws the entire war in the favor of the engineered team, resulting in a loss for the team that does not engineer. I’ve seen precious few instances where that holds up. I do see lots of cases where attacks went sideways, attackers were poor, and a clan just did not deliver enough stars to best the opposition.
    Last edited by Noctaire; November 7th, 2018 at 01:55 PM.
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  10. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sammydict View Post
    Could you possibly enlighten me on that logic, assumption whatever it's (Bold underlined)?

    Until then, I'll see that as a farce argument for I don't see a way to measure skill, decisively, let alone use it as an external factor as opposed to the next line you said which makes a lot of sense.
    You made the statement below

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammydict View Post
    In that respect, I'll rate skill % higher than strength because at even field skill will determine the outcome mostly.
    Your argument appears to be that skill is more important than strength because at even field (I assume you mean even field in terms of strength, or even strengh field), then skill determines the outcome mostly. I was pointing out, you could make a counter argument, that stength is more important than skill because at even field defined in terms of skill instead of strength (If we define even field in terms of skill, that is to say equal skill level, or equal skill field), strength will determined the outcome, mostly.

    My point is since it an aubitrary choices to define even field in terms or strength as apposed to skill, or skill as apposed to strength, that the argument doesnt shed any light on the relative importance of skill versus strength, anymore than it would be to say "i see strength as more important" or "i see skill as more important".

    With regard to measurement of skill, even If their were absolutley no way to measure skill, it doesnt matter at all to the argument. You can still conceptualise two clans having equal skill, as you could 2 clans having any level of different skill levels, seperate from your ability to objectively measure skill. You dont have to have the ability to accuratly measure something to discuss Its significance in a certain outcome, and If you did need to, and Its true you cant measure it, then posting at all in this thread would be a nonsensical endevour.
    Last edited by Vikingchief; November 7th, 2018 at 02:18 PM.
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