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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: why does supercell try to say the cwl is skill based

  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    No it isn't.

    There isn't the remotest possibility it is pay to play, and I still say it is not pay to win.

    It is pay if you want to win quickly, but that has always been the case.

    But you can still progress to a decent TH12 without paying, and once there can be competitive at the top levels in CWL without paying.
    Somewhat, the concept of "pay to win" with this game is pointless.
    How do you "win" a game which has no clearly defined singular objective?
    Is it "Be the Top Player?"
    Is it "Be the Top Clan?"
    Is it "Climb to Champion I? Titan League? Legend League?"
    Is it "Acquire the Longest Win Streak?"
    Is it "Max your base?"
    Is it "Have lots of fun?"

    The game is easily seen as a balanced and controlled arms race. As soon as things stabilize, super cell's job is to disrupt the stability by adding something new that undoes previous advantages. Depending on how you define "win", you very much may find yourself needing to pay in order to *compete*(for your perceived objective)

    My tag is #PRV82UGG for my main. I haven't spent a single penny on the game. I defined "winning" as maxing my queen without paying anything for her. The addition of th12 moved my bar a bit further back, but that won't be a huge deal. If CWL had come along 2 years earlier, I wouldn't have stalled my base for so long at max th8 and would easily be a mid th12 by now -probably max- but...thanks to the hammer I won in the first round of CWL, I'm sitting on an entirely "free" Level 50 queen as a th9.75. I'm delaying the heavy defensive upgrades until we move higher into Masters to keep the weight out of normal wars, but CWL is enticing me to participate in the arms race again.
    Last edited by DraakarDraekonis; 1 Week Ago at 12:03 PM.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by awsmbiglew View Post
    i dont understand why supercell is saying its skilled based when all you have to have is all 15 th12s do all 7 wars. they should have put slots in and/or made the 15 ineligible for the one war that way you would have to sub in and really think about strategy for war. or put in slots for certain townhalls so that a clan would have to be balanced and play all through the family like only allow 4 th12s and only allow 4 th11s or require a certain amount of townhalls from 10 down.
    A skirmish between two clans will always be determined by the following factors:

    1) strength
    2) ability to actually attack
    3) base design


    Right now, everybody has been placed into leagues according to their strength .. nothing else.

    In the coming months, strength + the ability to get points, will push clans up or down accordingly.

    Over the next year and many, many CWL events, we will start to see clans putting up 12 completely maxed bases, at this point, base design will start making a difference .. and the skill of picking a base apart and successfully attacking it will determine who wins.


    "CWL is Skill Based", but only at the very top (the question is where 15vs15 maxed TH12 wars begin)

    /Affront
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  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Affront View Post
    A skirmish between two clans will always be determined by the following factors:

    1) strength
    2) ability to actually attack
    3) base design


    Right now, everybody has been placed into leagues according to their strength .. nothing else.

    In the coming months, strength + the ability to get points, will push clans up or down accordingly.

    Over the next year and many, many CWL events, we will start to see clans putting up 12 completely maxed bases, at this point, base design will start making a difference .. and the skill of picking a base apart and successfully attacking it will determine who wins.


    "CWL is Skill Based", but only at the very top (the question is where 15vs15 maxed TH12 wars begin)

    /Affront
    Will disagree on that last bit. Base designing is skill and that very base design plays out as strength as well even at the top while defending.

    "CWL is skill based everywhere and everywhere strength factors in to determine a Clans real potential."

    It's a different debate that the strength factors in lower at the top and most at the bottom and probably skill factors in lowest in the bottom and highest at the top.
    Last edited by Sammydict; 1 Week Ago at 12:15 PM.
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  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodII View Post
    What...when did this become such a debate on semantics and loosely defined concepts?

    There are no rigorous definitions (as far as I know, and I am reasonably active in many gaming communities) of strength and skill. They are not mathematically defined. It isn't even clear how exactly we want to define "skill" in Clash of Clans. Base building? We can find bases online. Attack strategy? Draw three lines of bowlers, witches, and giants. Execution? See previous answer.

    Still everyone agrees that both skill and strength play a factor. That should be the end of the discussion. Trying to quantify them in any meaningful way is folly that leads to talking in circles. You can't quantify it being 60% skill 40% strength. There are no numbers to assign here. You can't say it's more skill than strength or vice versa. We can give a million examples of monkeys bashing on a tablet as skill or TH 12s dipping TH 4s for strength and it all proves nothing because it is clear that to have any success you need both strength and skill. Sentences like "strength is more important than skill" are totally meaningless.

    There are many things to discuss about the structure of CWL or improvements or its effects on mixed clans or anything else. Instead it's a debate on quantifying something that isn't a quantity.
    if you are not able to quantify things on a probabalistic bases in terms of what you believe, then you dont know what you even belive and others cant know what your talking about. If your only point is because people cant be sure what the objective quantifies are, and therefore discussions in relation to this are meaningless, then all discussion becomes meaningless, since we cant quantiy or qualify anything with objective certainty, and I have to wonder why you are posting on a discussion forum then, aside from telling people what they can and can't post about.

    Strength is clearly defined as pilot independant, had a fair proxy in base weight, and skill contingent on the pilot, and it certainly is possible to communicate what we belive the relative weightings of each factor is in determinant outcome generally and specifically in each league.
    Last edited by Vikingchief; 1 Week Ago at 12:31 PM.
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  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by DraakarDraekonis View Post
    Somewhat, the concept of "pay to win" with this game is pointless.
    This is why I prefer the term "pay to lose". It's most applicable in builder base, where no matter how much you pay, you still rise to the point where you lose half your attacks, unless you happen to be extraordinarily skilled. The same may be true in SC CWL.

    WRT clan matchups, I think it's important to keep in mind that strength based discrepancies that decide wars will not usually be discrepancies between the levels of the top bases, but the bottom bases. When both clans have approximately the same skill, the 5/5/5 clan will beat the 5/5/4/1 clan.
    Last edited by littledoctor; 1 Week Ago at 12:37 PM.

  6. #226
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    TH vs TH!
    Saves all this arguments.
    When CWL was announced I was so excited! Finally fair wars!! No more Engineers (.5,.75,defenless) getting the advantage!

    How disappointing to find out it wasnít TH vs TH!

    Now you put us all in a league, great! But now a clan of TH10s with one TH12 can face a clan with x10 TH12 and rest TH9s.

    If CWL needs to change it should be TH vs TH.

  7. #227
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    This is easily described as POWER vs SKILL.....

    a TH12 with little skill will struggle to 3 star a TH10/11 but will 3 star the base with Power.

    too many people are getting power and skill mixed up and they are saying the top leagues will be full of the skilful clans. This is completely untrue.. the top leagues will be full of the most POWERFUL clans.

    POWER IS NOT SKILL


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  8. #228
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    @Noctaire
    Right. People wonít be facing those matchups after things settle. But like I said before, I already know that. Iím just saying that (theoretical example to simplify things) the best of a x clan (average strength = x) will push past all the other x clans with skill, but not past an x+1 (average strength = x+1), even with all the skill because again, a max TH8 canít 3 star a stable TH9 (with good base ofc) any day of the week.

    While of course thereís gonna be a mix of all sorts of clans, most probably rushed and whatnot. But if you consider the average strength of a clan, they wonít be able to beat a clan thatís, on average, 1 townhall stronger than theirs (since there is only 1 attack per person).

  9. #229
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    I can't believe you are still arguing who got it more wrong.
    I used to be sarcastic when I was younger ...... Now it turned to solid cynicism.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sammydict View Post
    Will disagree on that last bit. Base designing is skill and that very base design plays out as strength as well even at the top while defending.

    "CWL is skill based everywhere and everywhere strength factors in to determine a Clans real potential."

    It's a different debate that the strength factors in lower at the top and most at the bottom and probably skill factors in lowest in the bottom and highest at the top.
    A skillfully designed TH11 base will still get curbstomped by a strong skillful TH12 player every time.

    I'm elliminating variables and the point where skill (attacking and base design) is the only thing separating opponents, will be at the very top.

    Everything else can be excused with "that guy was stronger than me"

    /Affront
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