[Serious] Discussion regarding the effectiveness of the loot system change.

[Bfoz]

I said it once in another thread but like this one seems to be read by SC I want to tell you this is the worst update EVER!!

I've been around for over 1 year now am nearly maxed TH9 but this update is a joke. By the way loot is not getting better with time but worse if you don't do anything! Simple mathematic, because you lowered the % that can be taken. The people you had a lot will be raided for much, but the people that get this loot won't be raided for the same amount because normally they have much less loot. People will also stay under the protection of shield much longer expect when they know they can play long sessions or don't have any loot to loose. I know I do, and this makes me play less, and is a sad thing for COC.

Well it has been a wonderful year, but if this should not be fixed during the next few weeks I think you will se a lot of people quitting. And to the people cheering well collector raids of my full collectors won't be as juicy anymore because SC removed the lootbonus..

Mate it is getting better i have had 3 300k+ of each today and with about 10 200k+ which is plenty if u ask me to sustain builders and lab upgrades so just rethink your strategy because it is out there

[Spatz]

nobody says that it's impossible to loot as long as you can manage to play a longer period of time non stop.

I have over 4 mio gold over 4 mio elixir and over 25k de so I offer quite a bit to the ones you pick on my base and while I may stay online several hours at weekend I can't do so on a workday. I can log on for a quick attack and have to log out again. I don't have the time to search for the 1 300k/300k/2,5K base at work. before I could easily break my shield for an 100K/100k/1k attack knowing that I won't loose (rarely) a lot of loot in between my 5 minute attack sessions. now I prefer staying behind a shield until evening when I have the possibility and time to search for a good base and when I can attack 2-3 times without logging off.

[Spatz]

I saw your suggestion of getting up in trophies and i'll give it a try but seriously I don't expect much cos there are quite some people complaining about less loot in crystal 3-1.

[Bfoz]

I don't do 10 hour sessions i just do a raid every now and then whenever i have time 5 mins here 5 mins there just like u but in those 5 mins i find bases and profit tones

[sexysoup]

I agree with the OP.

If a player can lose up to 350k (TH9), make the collectors generate that amount in the standard 12 hour shield or 16 hour shield time.

There was a balance with TH 8 losing a maximum of 200k. Because the attacked player's collectors can generate that amount in 12 hours with no risk(if not breaking the shield). Furthermore, a TH 8 player in the right trophy range can get 200k back in a matter of one raid or two.

But how many raids does a TH 9 player have to do to get that 350k back right now?
Now such balance no longer exists for TH 9 and TH 10 players.

Let's look at this from a hardcore player's perspective.

The reason I'm using the old TH 8 and the new TH 9 is that SC claims that the old loot system was balanced around TH 8s. So I'm comparing the playstyle for old TH 8 and the new TH 9s.

At the old TH 8, the more expensive upgrades are around 2M-2.5M. at a rate of 200k average loot from one raid, a player will only have to go up to 1.5M above the "comfort zone" of 1M in its storage(Comfort zone is the range that the storages have in order to have the available loot less than the loot cap shown to attackers). How much on average can a TH 8 player loot per raid? Somewhere around 200k. So 1.5M/200k that is 7.5 raids to fund the expensive upgrades.

Now look at TH 9. Let's say it costs 5M on average . that is almost 2.1M above the "comfort zone" of 2.9M. How much resources can a TH9 loot on average? I, as an average farmer, just looked at my attack log and did the math. It is 130k(post loot change). That is 16 raids.

For 7.5 raids at TH 8, a player can stay online because that's only 2~2.5 hours of commitment.

For 16 raids at TH 9, that's more than 8 hours of full commitment. Not to mention the 7M clan castle and level 3 xbows. So to get those, a player will have to log off at 5M (8 hour villager-tired timer)and most likely be attacked and lose 200k to 350k when forced to log off. Then do an other full 8 hour session when the shield is off.

Another factor to keep in mind is that the average loot per raid is a lot lower when you farm non-stop because there are fewer percentage of fights in which you will have all 4/5 spells available.
You see? That is probably the only way to get the TH 9 upgrades without too much frustration. The effort is... well... raid for 16 hours in two NON-STOP sessions. At certain point in CoC, it will be more demanding than heroic raiding in World of Warcraft.

As for solution, I'd suggest the OP's idea or
Either increase the collector's production rate to match that 350k/12 hours, (which will probably make resources to easy to aquire), or they can decrease the loot cap to maybe 250k for TH 9s and 300k for TH 10s.

[Benny101]

I agree with the OP.

If a player can lose up to 350k (TH9), make the collectors generate that amount in the standard 12 hour shield or 16 hour shield time.

There was a balance with TH 8 losing a maximum of 200k. Because the attacked player's collectors can generate that amount in 12 hours with no risk(if not breaking the shield). Furthermore, a TH 8 player in the right trophy range can get 200k back in a matter of one raid or two.

But how many raids does a TH 9 player have to do to get that 350k back right now?
Now such balance no longer exists for TH 9 and TH 10 players.

Let's look at this from a hardcore player's perspective.

The reason I'm using the old TH 8 and the new TH 9 is that SC claims that the old loot system was balanced around TH 8s. So I'm comparing the playstyle for old TH 8 and the new TH 9s.

At the old TH 8, the more expensive upgrades are around 2M-2.5M. at a rate of 200k average loot from one raid, a player will only have to go up to 1.5M above the "comfort zone" of 1M in its storage(Comfort zone is the range that the storages have in order to have the available loot less than the loot cap shown to attackers). How much on average can a TH 8 player loot per raid? Somewhere around 200k. So 1.5M/200k that is 7.5 raids to fund the expensive upgrades.

Now look at TH 9. Let's say it costs 5M on average . that is almost 2.1M above the "comfort zone" of 2.9M. How much resources can a TH9 loot on average? I, as an average farmer, just looked at my attack log and did the math. It is 130k(post loot change). That is 16 raids.

For 7.5 raids at TH 8, a player can stay online because that's only 2~2.5 hours of commitment.

For 16 raids at TH 9, that's more than 8 hours of full commitment. Not to mention the 7M clan castle and level 3 xbows. So to get those, a player will have to log off at 5M (8 hour villager-tired timer)and most likely be attacked and lose 200k to 350k when forced to log off. Then do an other full 8 hour session when the shield is off.

Another factor to keep in mind is that the average loot per raid is a lot lower when you farm non-stop because there are fewer percentage of fights in which you will have all 4/5 spells available.
You see? That is probably the only way to get the TH 9 upgrades without too much frustration. The effort is... well... raid for 16 hours in two NON-STOP sessions. At certain point in CoC, it will be more demanding than heroic raiding in World of Warcraft.

As for solution, I'd suggest the OP's idea or
Either increase the collector's production rate to match that 350k/12 hours, (which will probably make resources to easy to aquire), or they can decrease the loot cap to maybe 250k for TH 9s and 300k for TH 10s.

I have to say this new system is starting to grow on me. My point of view is that it offers a more equal position for the different TH's. It also brings back the tension when logging off (which I hadn't felt since I maxed my TH8). I do think there needs to be some tweaking on the loot side. I think SC knows that too. But before doing so they have to know how the new system affects gameplay. The only way to get the right data is to implement the changes one step at a time. Steve explained this very well. I think we have to give them some more time and be mild in or judgement for the time being.

[Darkpye]

I have to say this new system is starting to grow on me. My point of view is that it offers a more equal position for the different TH's. It also brings back the tension when logging off (which I hadn't felt since I maxed my TH8). I do think there needs to be some tweaking on the loot side. I think SC knows that too. But before doing so they have to know how the new system affects gameplay. The only way to get the right data is to implement the changes one step at a time. Steve explained this very well. I think we have to give them some more time and be mild in or judgement for the time being.

That tension when logging off is the one biggest reason people quit.

[CalanDracus]

That link addresses their view on whether raiding will be more profitable once the economy settles. It however does not address the fact they are punishing those of us who have a real life. Not everyone who plays this game is a teenager.


I have a 12 hr a day job and a family and house and commitments outside of a mobile game. My old routine saw me raiding on average 12 times a day breaking shields after my commute to work, on my 15 min breaks, my half hour lunch, in line ups while running errands and after work when I got my troop training complete notifications in between family, cooking dinner, doing chores and laundry etc. This style of play is now severely punished and i find myself raiding only 4 times a day twice in my morning coffee hour and twice in my relaxation hour before bed those are the only times i have to stay continuously logged on. However in that time frame i am getting raided 3 times, twice when i log off and once when my shield runs out at work for a combined loss of more than I am raiding.


I make a six figure salary and have the disposable income to spend money on this game (and I have done so amounts that to me seem insignificant but that others would be amazed by) so I am just wondering what SC hopes to gain by alienating the players who have the wherewithal to spend. While I am sure there are some adults with the time and a job that allow them to stay logged on I would imagine that most of the people who play for those long stretches are young people, most of whom do NOT have that same disposable income. Just looking for the reasoning behind the decision and a response as to whether they think this is going to get better as well. This new update seems geared towards forcing me to quit more than enticing me to play.

Im on the same boat as you, no point on breaking shield if there is no loot to be found in the short ammounts of time I have at work and at home. The greatest resource for me is not gold or de, not even gems, is my limited tiime.


Another point is the change in the overall dynamics of the game. The previous loot format prevented big guys abusing small ones, now that is gone, which makes the game less enjoyable. This rule was why I picked the game in the first place because it gives you hope of upgrading your base without the fear of getting cleaned up by a higher lvl player. Also it does nothing to help you save for big upgrades (in which world is better to loose 350k than 200k resources, not to mention vast de loses?). 25% and a 200k cap made sure the average base had somenthing to loot. With the new rules you dont start seeing loot unless the player have more than 1 million for low level ths and 2 millions for a th 10. Makes me think the goal of this update was to decrease the overall available loot, put a downward pressure on those trying to upgrade their high level defenses.
If the problem was the available loot why not adjust it instead? A 10% increase in mine production wont ruin the long term potential with current upgrade prices. And the idea that TH10 are the ones that need the resources the most is erroneous, we all need the loot (before i get a lvl 4 xbow i need a lvl 3 xbow dont i?)

[CalanDracus]

My proposed changes:
go back to the old formula of loot bonuses and penalties with the following adjustments:
10% bonus or penalty by th lvl.

keep the 25% available loot from containers with new caps
250 th 10
220 th 9
200 8 and below

lvl 12 mines and collectors for th 10 (or th 11 if its comming in the next few months)

[magineal]

i posted a thread regarding leaving ths exposed. i really believe this stradegy will work if everyone cooperates, especially crystal league and up. we spend thousands of gold just to search for a potential base to attack, spend lots of elix to build an army and spend countless hours just waiting for your army. this plan is so simple and it benefits us all.

In crystal III league you get a loot bonus of 21k each for both gold and elix plus 50 DE. etc etc etc...the higher you go the more LOOT BONUS you get. (duh!)

now, we all know getting just ONE star will win you the game and the loot bonus. So the idea is plain and simple. LEAVE THS EXPOSED. attack with a barb king or arch queen and keep on doing this until your storages are full. If you want to continue attacking, that's fine it's entirely up to you.

so doing this 20x if you are in crystal III. 20 x 21,000 (loot bonus gold)= 420,000 gold
20 x 21,000 ( loot bonus elix)= 420,000 elix
20 x 50 (loot bonus DE)= 1000 DE
provided that EVERY PLAYER LEAVES THEIR TOWNHALL EXPOSED, you can have these in minutes!!! not hours, days, weeks....literally in minutes!!!

We save time, elix, gold and gems doing it this way. I just wish every player cooperates. some may be greedy and continue attacking with ths offering higher available loot...but then we can get it all back by just doing this....

simplicity is effective!!!