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Thread: Power Potion in War

  1. #51
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    So many to choose from.. first off, I don't get the "fair play" bit. We use 3 terms, as a rule.. Engineering, balanced and maxer (extreme balanced). All 3 are fair play strategies, so why try to pretend otherwise. I personally use the balanced build, but am not averse to taking advantage in war, if the opportunity arises. I would think people using 3rd party, are the ones that aren't "fair play", anything else is acceptable.
    The inclusion of PP was a massive step backwards for war play, and dropped at a time when matching was already terrible, talk about stirring up muddy waters. The argument that they allow for the continuation of an account in war whilst at a new hall state, is poor, as prior to PP, they would just continue as before (a new 10 would be a red 9), since both defence and offence would still be at th9 levels, and they would simply integrate into the th10 scene, as they grew. Need to bear in mind, that they will only carry the weight of what they have, so a new hall should not be classified by its colour. eg,, if a clan leader takes the view that a new 10 should be warring as a 10, then he should not be leading a clan.
    I don't get the argument that its bad for engineers to use PP, but it is ok for balanced/maxer to use as a stop gap. Simply thru the account taking the camps, lab, spells route upgrade path on a new hall, with the intention of using PP to bump their army, then that is engineering, whether anyone cares to admit it or not. It is an intentional ploy to get maximum gain, for the time it is used.
    How could SC take the potential use of PP into consideration when making a match?. It is not a given, that PP will be used, and increasing the weight due to potential, would mean the match will be entirely different due to the weight increase, so can neither be increased at a later time, if potion is used, or taken away if it isn't, as the match will already have been made. It is the same argument as with upgrades. Potential may not be realised, so cant be included.
    All in all, anything that cant be counted, as a certainty, cant be good. But it is what it is. They put it in the game, so is a part of it, for better or worse. If they decided to remove it, then it will be what it will be. The ground rules are set, its up to the players to use, or not use, their choice. But cant really argue for something that isn't counted, and call yourselves fair play.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by sam3105 View Post
    All right, first off, I'm new in these forums so I don't know how you quote to individual points so I will just reply with a numbered list.
    Welcome! The way to quote individual parts of the entire quote is to copy the “quote” part at the end that is in brackets and move it to end of the last sentence you want in the quote. However, note you then have to copy the quote part at the start of the full quote (the part that contains the player’s name, a number, etc.) and put that at the start of the next portion you want to quote.

    Quote Originally Posted by sam3105 View Post
    I understood you the first time and that is why I agreed that there is a problem with matchmaking cause it does not take into account the max troop levels you can get with the use of power potions. This should be factored in somehow.
    Then we are in agreement. The fact that the matchmaker doesn’t account for the troop and spell levels gained by the power potion is the only reason I think it shouldn’t be allowed in war.

    Quote Originally Posted by sam3105 View Post
    Lock in troops / heroes and buildings based on what they were at search times? So if someone's bowlers just got to level 2 shortly after the war was declared, he must use level 1 bowlers even if he didn't gem them? He must pay the full price of a level 2 mass bowler army but can only use them at level 1? Any refund if and when it gets used as level 1 in war? Keeping track of all the troops, heroes (well only 1-3 depending on the townhall), and buildings and wall pieces and level should be counted too - sounds like a nightmare for the devs to implement. Too much work under the hood. Also imagine the outcry in these forums who will complain if such a thing was implemented. And from those who gem, they would be demanding their gems back.
    Yes, lock them in so you have to war with the troops, spells and defense you matched with. I don’t see an issue with the training cost. It is too small to matter. As for gems, why would players gem their troops done on prep day if they knew they couldn’t use them? They wouldn’t, so no demanding of gems back.


    Quote Originally Posted by sam3105 View Post
    SuperCell will not implement something like this that will hurt their pockets. No company would.
    There are many examples of SC appearing to do exactly that. I say “appearing” because while it looks like a loss of gems in the short term, if it makes players like the game more it likely increases gems in the long term.


    Quote Originally Posted by sam3105 View Post
    SuperCell took away building and cancelling any buildings during prep / war time as you mentioned cause that exploited matchmaking. You build with the gold you have and cancel with the click of a button. No gems were spent so it never affected their pockets so they were more than willing to remove this loophole for the betterment of the war community.
    Currently, players can build defenses on prep day and exploit the matchmaker the exact same way. That is what I’m suggesting should be stopped. The only difference is the same player can’t do it with the same defense on the same account more than once. They can do it with other defenses and very serious clans can rotate in a different account to do it over and over when needed, though.


    Quote Originally Posted by sam3105 View Post
    And how is this a compelling argument for the removal or power potion in war now? So you used a power potion and had a max TH12 offense and crushed a TH11. I would expect the opponent also had a TH12 and could do the same to one of your TH11's. Fair play isn't it? You chose to use it, your opponent probably chose not to. That is his decision.
    Now if you told me that he didn't have a TH12, you just proved my point that power potions are needed in war cause even if he cannot 3 star your TH12 with a max TH11 offense, he can hope to get a high 2 star, and hope the rest of his clanmates does better than the rest of your clanmates. If not a win, he can hope for a draw in this situation.
    You mentioned that you didn't have a max TH11 lab before going to TH12. So to further illustrate my point, if the troops you used to 3 star that TH11 were troops that were not upgraded, then you should not have been allowed to use max TH12 troops. You should be allowed a +1 troop level only.
    It is only even if both clans have same ability to use power potions. If one clan doesn’t have the max lab so they can’t do it or if they already have the max troop so they got hit with the weight, it isn’t even. No, I didn’t suggest I didn’t have a max lab before moving to th12. I was fully maxed at th11 for a long time before going to th12.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    I don't get the argument that its bad for engineers to use PP, but it is ok for balanced/maxer to use as a stop gap. Simply thru the account taking the camps, lab, spells route upgrade path on a new hall, with the intention of using PP to bump their army, then that is engineering, whether anyone cares to admit it or not. It is an intentional ploy to get maximum gain, for the time it is used.
    How could SC take the potential use of PP into consideration when making a match?. It is not a given, that PP will be used, and increasing the weight due to potential, would mean the match will be entirely different due to the weight increase, so can neither be increased at a later time, if potion is used, or taken away if it isn't, as the match will already have been made. It is the same argument as with upgrades. Potential may not be realised, so cant be included.
    Hi Josh - I understand what you are saying here, and quite simply I'd have no problem at all if Supercell blocked the use of Power Potions in Wars. Seems to be the simplest solution!

    The power potion does give the possible advantage of having lvl 1 dragons, and using maxed ones for war. However, I don't see this happening very often, I see it being used by people that had high level troops already for the previous town hall (so are only getting a 1 or two level troop upgrade)

    So yes, it makes a difference, and it is a help, but it is only a help for a war when you have a power potion (which will not be all the time!) So overall, I view this as a minor issue, that doesn't affect too many wars, and probably won't have too much impact in future....

    .....unless it becomes the 'new' engineering. If people take things to the extreme, it could become a huge issue. I'd like to think that Supercell are therefore keeping an eye on this, and if power potions start getting used a lot for extreme advantage, then they should block the use in war.

    As an aside, has anyone used a Power Potion, other than for a war raid? Maybe just once 'for fun', but otherwise I'd guess it is used just for war. So if we take that away, does Power Potion become pretty much redundant?

  4. #54
    Forum Superstar TankSinatra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkyValker View Post
    As an aside, has anyone used a Power Potion, other than for a war raid? Maybe just once 'for fun', but otherwise I'd guess it is used just for war. So if we take that away, does Power Potion become pretty much redundant?
    I'd imagine its a big hit outside of the war forum, we're just not the target market. SCs actions are a lot more understandable once you accept that, they're running a mass market casual game.
    It's always the closet engineers that are the most bitter. Trying to maintain a righteous pose while doing exactly what they claim to hate, lashing out at anyone that points out the obvious.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkyValker View Post
    Hi Josh - I understand what you are saying here, and quite simply I'd have no problem at all if Supercell blocked the use of Power Potions in Wars. Seems to be the simplest solution!

    The power potion does give the possible advantage of having lvl 1 dragons, and using maxed ones for war. However, I don't see this happening very often, I see it being used by people that had high level troops already for the previous town hall (so are only getting a 1 or two level troop upgrade)

    So yes, it makes a difference, and it is a help, but it is only a help for a war when you have a power potion (which will not be all the time!) So overall, I view this as a minor issue, that doesn't affect too many wars, and probably won't have too much impact in future....

    .....unless it becomes the 'new' engineering. If people take things to the extreme, it could become a huge issue. I'd like to think that Supercell are therefore keeping an eye on this, and if power potions start getting used a lot for extreme advantage, then they should block the use in war.

    As an aside, has anyone used a Power Potion, other than for a war raid? Maybe just once 'for fun', but otherwise I'd guess it is used just for war. So if we take that away, does Power Potion become pretty much redundant?
    Then we are in agreement mate. It isn't a big issue. the effect is localised to single wars ( which isn't insignificant to the receiving player/clan), but does not have a major impact on the game in general. But I also think, that if it was taken away, then not a lot will have been lost, as people will simply revert back to the pre PP days, and folk will war with what they have got. Skill, and the MM, should decide wars, not aids. I may change my mind once our halls upgrade of course lol.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by TankSinatra View Post
    I'd imagine its a big hit outside of the war forum, we're just not the target market. SCs actions are a lot more understandable once you accept that, they're running a mass market casual game.
    This ^^^

    IMO it was introduced so as you go up a TH, drop the lab, and a power potion, you are overcome with the excitement of the higher level troops, and gem them on the spot ... something like that.

    I think SuperCell intended to stop PP from being used in war, perhaps after feedback from those under NDA, but decided not to worry or not to at a later date. The reason I think that is if you look back at the original announcement of magic items it said something about each item would explain whether or not it was usable in war ... well the only one I can think this would involve is PP ... but they didn't stop its use in war and that is that.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobeone View Post
    This ^^^

    IMO it was introduced so as you go up a TH, drop the lab, and a power potion, you are overcome with the excitement of the higher level troops, and gem them on the spot ... something like that.

    I think SuperCell intended to stop PP from being used in war, perhaps after feedback from those under NDA, but decided not to worry or not to at a later date. The reason I think that is if you look back at the original announcement of magic items it said something about each item would explain whether or not it was usable in war ... well the only one I can think this would involve is PP ... but they didn't stop its use in war and that is that.
    Ahhh - of course. I hadn't thought of that!

    They have taken the opposite approach to the friendly challenge - Supercell introduced the 24 hour cooldown. This was introduced to ensure people couldn't practice raid on enemy base layouts for war. In reality, I think very few people would actually bother taking the time to do this (some would, but not many!)

    I wouldn't mind if that 'feature' was removed also, so we could test & tweak new bases.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by TankSinatra View Post
    I'd imagine its a big hit outside of the war forum, we're just not the target market. SCs actions are a lot more understandable once you accept that, they're running a mass market casual game.
    You mean it's not all about me?! How disappointing!!

    As always Tank - you make far too much sense!

  9. #59
    knowing supercell they didnt release power potions thinking about the engineers but thought it would just be a fun thing for players of a new townhall to get to use. maybe just maybe they thought about players that just upgraded to a new townhall could then at least be useful to still put in a line-up but that's probably a stretch

    doubtful they really think about war all that much in their decision making
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skrags View Post
    I don't think the Power Potion has been as detrimental as many of us (myself included), first imagined they could/would be.

    Yes, we've probably all seen them being used in war attacks, but how often has a war been decided by them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Skrags View Post
    Well, that's actually quite a lot to be fair. I just feel there would be a lot more complaining on the forum if Power Potions were being abused over and above the odd one or two, certainly before the TH12 update.

    .
    What goes around, comes around. Yesterday, we lost a war, and most of our opponents TH12s used power potions on their attacks. No complaints here though, it is what it is. Still a great war from both sides, I thought we had it!!!

    Reminds self to not to post about these potions again....doh!!!
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