That’s one nail in the engineering coffin..how about another?

[Noctaire]

Yep, I was just clarifying that when you say it weighed like a th7 and even now when you say it ranked like a th7, you are talking about defensive weight only. You cannot see based on the map position what the offensive weight was of that base and you also cannot see the other things that were considered by the war matchmaker for that base. Where he “ranked” is only his defensive weight compared to the defensive weight of others in his clan.

Yup; that’s the point I was making and why I say it’s such a problem. It’s even more an issue now with the potion that boosts troops to lab max level. He could literally have brought all maxed troops to a TH8 and lower war, not that he needed to do with the ones he already had at higher levels able to take out anything we had.

This is why the lopsided bases are so devastating in even smaller numbers for low level clans. 2 in a 20v20 means the top 4 bases are guaranteed 3-starred; that’s usually all that is needed for a perfect war. Just 1 kills a 15v15. It’s also why I applaud the addition of clan XP to Clan Games and would like to see something added to the BB as well.

[TankSinatra]

Yup; that’s the point I was making and why I say it’s such a problem. It’s even more an issue now with the potion that boosts troops to lab max level. He could literally have brought all maxed troops to a TH8 and lower war, not that he needed to do with the ones he already had at higher levels able to take out anything we had.

From the get-go, power potion was a loud & proud announcement from SC that fair matching is a very low priority for them.

[Sservis]

From the get-go, power potion was a loud & proud announcement from SC that fair matching is a very low priority for them.

Between the power potion and requiring all buildings to upgrade TH, SC has pushed the game quite close to TH only based matchmaking being accurate in clan wars.

SC is working to tighten the guardrails on play styles. At least on the defensive side, weight mostly equals power. I'm not sure how they're doing matchmaking with the power potion. Do they assume usage and penalize those who don't? Do they not count it and benefit those who do?

[Ripple1972]

Between the power potion and requiring all buildings to upgrade TH, SC has pushed the game quite close to TH only based matchmaking being accurate in clan wars.

SC is working to tighten the guardrails on play styles. At least on the defensive side, weight mostly equals power. I'm not sure how they're doing matchmaking with the power potion. Do they assume usage and penalize those who don't? Do they not count it and benefit those who do?

Except TH matching is not necessarily accurate. It is in the league type wars, as their are tiers, and everything else is maxed.

I would recommend sending Darian the "tightening the guardrails" phrase, it is good PR.
Defense weight and power is not aligned, if it were engineered would not be as much as an issue. If I can build a TH11 without a couple key defenses, have (for much of the last 2 years) it weigh less than a max TH10, and yet I can 3 star th10's and they never can 3 me, is alignment working.

I do not think Power potions are accounted for in any way in war matching.

[Noctaire]

From the get-go, power potion was a loud & proud announcement from SC that fair matching is a very low priority for them.

I see it differently - the addition of the Power Potion says, “we’re going to help even the odds a little bit”.

Often, the maxed offense of one TH is able to take down the lower level defenses of the next TH up. Case in point I recently took down a semi-defenseless TH11 (x-bows, hidden teslas, couple cannons and archer towers) with a TH8 that had maxed potions, Dragons, and Archers. I’ve done the same to lower defensive levels on TH9s - both rushed and just recently upgraded - with maxed TH8 troops.

Ideally, the matchmaker would prevent these matchups from ever even happening but there are limits to how closely it can match clans, even without the engineered games/rosters.

[xXXCHRISXXx]

From the get-go, power potion was a loud & proud announcement from SC that fair matching is a very low priority for them.

I see it differently - the addition of the Power Potion says, “we’re going to help even the odds a little bit”.

I do not think Power potions are accounted for in any way in war matching.

You both make strong points. However, I tend to agree with Ripple. Power potions are not accounted for in match making.

[TankSinatra]

I see it differently - the addition of the Power Potion says, “we’re going to help even the odds a little bit”.

I can't see it that way. Having a disruptive offense item that has no MM weight was a gift to engineers and we've used it accordingly. Benefits the maxer only at the beginning of their journey at a particular TH.

When it dropped I wondered if they'd switch from troop weights to lab weight, but I don't think that's happened.

[Sservis]

I can't see it that way. Having a disruptive offense item that has no MM weight was a gift to engineers and we've used it accordingly. Benefits the maxer only at the beginning of their journey at a particular TH.

When it dropped I wondered if they'd switch from troop weights to lab weight, but I don't think that's happened.

I agree I expected them to switch to some sort of potential weighting, specifically "if you have a power potion at search time, assume it's use".

Want to bet if they'll adjust power potion in matchmaking or Inferno Tower weight first? (IT appear to still have the same weighting as it was before they removed anti-heal) I'm sure they'll do both someday.

[Sservis]

Except TH matching is not necessarily accurate. It is in the league type wars, as their are tiers, and everything else is maxed.

I would recommend sending Darian the "tightening the guardrails" phrase, it is good PR.
Defense weight and power is not aligned, if it were engineered would not be as much as an issue. If I can build a TH11 without a couple key defenses, have (for much of the last 2 years) it weigh less than a max TH10, and yet I can 3 star th10's and they never can 3 me, is alignment working.

I do not think Power potions are accounted for in any way in war matching.

I don't disagree with you that defensive engineering exists and is powerful. However, it's not a "matchmaking" problem. It stems from significant defensive weight issues. The Wizard Tower, Bomb Tower, Xbow, Inferno Tower, and Eagle all could use significant changes in weight. The value of defensive engineering doesn't come from the matchmaking, it sources from poorly calculated inputs to any matchmaker. Specifically I blame the fact that for the named buildings too much weight is allocated both in total and to their level 1 version.

The force to build level 1 is essentially a second best way of fixing the building weights. (ok, maybe first best as "obviousness" has PR value) When forced to build level 1 of the building (where most of the weight is on the poorly weighted items), every base includes the poorly weighted item and the advantage of not having it goes away. By narrowing the range of possibilities like this, TH9 and up start to look a lot more uniform. It becomes closer to TH matching for those with all buildings (and how much have you built in the TH for those without).

The Power potion was/is a good first step on balancing the offensive side. There is no good/simple weight formula on the offensive side. Offensively a base doesn't don't have to use all troops so linear weights will have issues of one sort or another*. By providing a mechanism to catchup newly upgraded laboratories, SC gets rid of the need to avoid penalizing newly upgraded laboratories. However, based on what people are say, it seems like they haven't shifted to matching that way.



* Defensively, since everything has to be defeated for a 3 star, a linear weights approach can have merit if the individual items are properly weighted.

[Noctaire]

I am so accustomed to the underdog slot in CWs that it never really occurred to me that the Power Potion would negatively impact offensive weighting outcomes. It doesn’t seem like there’s much offensive weighting going on anyway....