[Project] Let’s build a trap base

[Moocow81]

Also Richard, can I ask what u think when you see someone while attacking who has one of ur bases? Just out of interest

[maynards35]

Also Richard, can I ask what u think when you see someone while attacking who has one of ur bases? Just out of interest

I still always screenshot it for the record, it's so awesome to see someone using it. I try to attack or at least drop trophies on them. It's great when you want to test the design, it's the closest thing to sandbox mode we have.

[Moocow81]

I still always screenshot it for the record, it's so awesome to see someone using it. I try to attack or at least drop trophies on them. It's great when you want to test the design, it's the closest thing to sandbox mode we have.

Haha. I know this is going rly off topic, but have u ever like three starred ur own base? Or close? And also what did u think of my comment about subtle luring?

[rhymquimghyf]

Here are my thoughts on 'Trap' layouts and why they can never work:

As a few of you may know, I love base designing to bits, it's my favourite part of CoC. I used to make A-symmetrical designs but symmetrical designs were so much more aesthetically pleasing and generally had better results. OP, you made a great post, but I disagree with you saying that in symmetrical layouts 'all sides of your base are equally weak. Attacker will face 1/4 of your traps and 1/4 of your defenses, because you spread them equally.' While it is true that you spread out your traps and defences, I see no better alternative than this since if you want better results, you will always have to weaken one side more than the others.

Trap layouts rely on cunning tactics to surprise the attacker and fool the AI. If you get a skilled attacker, the trap will usually be avoided, and once you publish such a design and it becomes popular, the trap aspect will be completely disregarded. You will end up with a layout that is non-functional as everyone will attack from the weak side -this is my main problem with traps designs.

The problems of such designs are multiplied exponentially since you are trying to pull off such a feat with TH8 defences. Perhaps with lvl 9 walls and lvl 7 splash, weaker sides will be strong enough to survive most attacks, however, a TH8 with lvl 6 splash can simply not afford to open itself to such disadvantage on defence.

Richard

Yes, symmetrical bases are very aesthetically pleasing. People tend to judge bases on looks.

But how many people who design bases account for this, for example?



That's why I'd like to see battle log included for every design posted.
Why don't fill storages (to become 200/200/1000+, 200/200/2000 for bases that emphasize DE protection), go up in trophies (2000 is good for TH8) and drop your shield after every attack? It won't take long to fill your battle log with 10-20 records.

That'll be a great benchmark.


The main problem of aesthetically pleasing bases is that giants don't really care much about aesthetics. What they care is where next closest defense is.
Mortar doesn't really care if it and two other mortars form perfect triangle. What it cares about is this pesky giant who entered it's range first, that's why it is ignoring bunch of archers that are killing it while it's busy tickling that giant.

Yes, symmetrical bases do work, but they work only when you got overwhelming defensive power. Late TH8 have it, early Th8 have not.

But I believe we can do much more with less. Why? Because this ugly test-base with no mortars at all fared way better against maxed lvl6 armies than this one (symmetrical, aesthetically pleasing, triangular/hexagonal and stuff, I really like it)

Symmetry doesn't shoot giants, guns do.

What I'd like to see here is designs, or ideas, that focus on funneling, separating units by type, guiding, luring, focusing damage and using traps to kill enemies in the most effective way - things that really matter.


Unfortunately, still haven't come up with anything myself. Made dozen of designs but I don't like them all in the end.

[cfarq]

I like this thread, anyone that is looking into the mechanics of the game/traps/unit ai gets a thumbs up indeed. Im a th9 and going to be looking at giant bomb placement shortly as a defence against hogs so this is interesting to me. Keep up the good work

Agreed, definitely looking into a hog ring with double giant bombs at th9

I'm not sure if a base can be a trap base for all attacks, but this thread will help people defend against whichever strategy is used most on them.

[966souchou]

I decided to take a crack at it. I normally make 4 or 6-way symmetry bases, but you said to make completely asymmetrical ones. I absolutely cannot stand that, so I decided to content everyone with a 2-way symmetry base.





It is meant to be attacked from the SE side. I believe people will attack that side for several reasons:
-SE AD is extremely vulnerable; several air armies will begin from there
-DE is closer to that side
-no breaking of walls is required to reach the main resources
-NW area has a 2-tile cushion, preventing any archers from picking those buildings off
-NW has several point and splash defenses aimed at it, where an attack from the SE can theoretically easily reach it
-all leftover buildings, such as the Army Camps and Barracks, are in the NE, meaning more dummy buildings for troops to work through
-BK will be on SW side; once people kill it, their attention will be focused on that area(psychology, sorta)

However, several things make it so an "easy" attack from that area will not be as easy at it seems:
-several SAMs and Air Bombs protect that SE area to destroy any flying troops
-Wiz towers and Teslas are placed right by the funnels, destroying almost any group of troops
-3 Spring Traps in a row at both sides will insta-kill 6+, hopefully 9, Giants each lane
-sieve separates Giants and Tier 1 troops, allowing Giants to be destroyed by Teslas and other point defenses while bombs and mortars destroy Tier 1 troops going after elixir storages(high HP of storage confirms that Tier 1 troops will stay for a long time, allowing them to be destroyed by the mortar and bombs)
-a lot of WBs, if used, will be required to try to break into the core
-triple Giant Bombs clustered around defenses will explode almost simultaneously, giving attacker no time to try and heal his Hog Riders




How about it? I think it's an okay base.

[TheCleric83]

@966. Can you re-design this base for town hall 9 please. Sorry to hijack the OP thread Im just curious to see how you would work that with more stuff.

[rhymquimghyf]

You're first!

As for the luring part: it might work, it might not.
Most people will have 6 or more WB with them, and tend to use all of them, so single wall cushion will not stop anyone from attacking the side they feel comfortable with. NW side might be tempting to go for the TH and gold, DE is not that valuable in Crystal, there is plenty of it.

To stay neutral on trophies, we only need to win 1 defense for every 3 1-star losses.
If luring part will work at least 40% of the time, and if it's a guaranteed win - we will stay positive.

This needs to be field-tested, as funnels are complex matter, and WB going into the funnel, or detonating on the outer wall and destroying the funnel altogether is often decided by adding or removing 1 piece of wall.
I can't tell it for sure by the looks, but it seems to me that first pair of WB will explode if deployed close to the AD.
As for the giants, I think they will go for the funnel if it's intact, but, again, it needs to be tested.
Where they'll go next is hard to tell (which is a good thing, because we, as defender, have the ability to field test and fine tune it, to KNOW for sure, but attacker will have to guess every time, and wishful thinking is a common mistake ).

It seems like mortar is 3 steps away, while the AT is 4 steps away from the Air bomb. Giants can go for the mortar, they might as well split. It needs to be tested.

I like how spring traps are protected against goblins, but 3 usually isn't enough to kill a whole pack of giants (ideally they'll take out 9, but there is nothing to group giants up, so they probably only take out 3-5)

That's the problem with mirrored bases - traps are still spread out evenly.
I'm thinking about mirrored base having 1 side slightly more tempting - having upgrading defenses and Gold/De there, and make this side loaded with all the traps, while the other side left with just empty spots.

Not killing a whole pack of giants means that all mortars (and some other defenses too) will be distracted.
Archers will have easy time killing the distracted tesla, Wiz tower (gold storage will not tank as Wiz is closer, so it's relying on the self-tank, not good) and probably the central mortar too.

At this point we'll have 1 mortar and 2 Wiz towers left, which is a good thing if we have no giants left, but I think we will, because there is not enough spring traps and not enough raw DPS to take them out (lvl6 giants are beasts)


As for the Air Bombs (red), I kinda like and dislike them there at the same time
They will work great for minions, but not for Balloons.
We need 3 of them detonating at once to kill a pack of lvl5 Balloons, we need all four to kill lvl6.
Bombs are in range of a Wiz tower, so, if we are lucky, balloons will be damaged already, but no heal spell dropped yet. If the spell is up, it's all lost.
I'm not into hardcore ballooning yet, so i'm not sure. I like to use spell on the Wiz tower early, but maybe thats just me.

Giant bombs - I like them there. They will do severe damage, and there are a lot of DPS in the area to finish whats left.

It's a good start. I found a lot of useful clues in this design. It certainly deserves a test.

I've updated opening post to include your design.

[AirmanRaider]

The way I think of things is the red airmines are used predominately to kill minions, as they are the ones that do the real damage in Ballon-minion. The big problem with having all the red airmines together is that they are easily detonated without having much effect on the defence. My base currently has four red airmines deliberately placed to protect my gold and DE from minions.

All four together I don't really like the sound of, sorry.

Then again, I have always been one for symmetrical bases!

[rhymquimghyf]

The way I think of things is the red airmines are used predominately to kill minions, as they are the ones that do the real damage in Ballon-minion.

Right. But the Balloons go first and do the tanking. If they take any splash damage from Wiz Tower or from red bombs, they are quickly healed back to full health by spells.

In theory group of balloons can be instantly killed with 4 air mines, so they can't be healed.
Without balloons minions don't last log, they are squishy.

Too bad experienced players rarely send balloons in 1 group, they like to split them.