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Thread: When is a new TH considered a .5?

  1. #21
    Centennial Club 23skidoo's Avatar
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    That is a nice spread of choices to build a war roster. My clan has no where near those types of choices so I unfortunately have a hard time relating to your suggestions regarding reverse .5 bases. Glad to hear it’s working for you guys. I do question whether the base builds you think are giving you the advantage are actually the bases that are gaining you an advantage, but what do I know.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23skidoo View Post
    That is a nice spread of choices to build a war roster. My clan has no where near those types of choices so I unfortunately have a hard time relating to your suggestions regarding reverse .5 bases. Glad to hear it’s working for you guys. I do question whether the base builds you think are giving you the advantage are actually the bases that are gaining you an advantage, but what do I know.
    The key point of advantage is TH11 without GW but put defense asap. this is what I said reverse .5 route. We still have some mates don't believe reverse path even they run 9.11 style. I think those reverse .5 saves and balances them.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23skidoo View Post
    This is for the war forum masses, all opinions welcome. Iíve been a believer in offense before defense when upping to a new TH level for a while now. Canít really say Iím looking for an advantage but I need to hold my own in wars. Donít get me wrong, Iíd happily take an advantage but Iím more concerned with not being a liability more than gaining an advantage. I figure that makes me a little dirty but nowhere near filthy which would keep me firmly in the ĎI upgrade sensiblyí crowd which helps me sleep at night.

    Anyway, is this an organic type thing? Iím near the top of our war roster so itís fairly easy to see the effects my base has on a match. So is it something that will show up when my balance tilts to offensively lopsided enough that the MM will start consistently feeding me Inferno bases?

    Some of my setup info- Just went TH10 from fully maxed 9.

    Have upgraded
    Spell factory, Lab, CC, 2 army camps.
    Teslas, most Giant bombs, added The new Giant bomb and Skelly trap
    Heal and Jump
    Golem, Wiz, Valk

    Queen 32 King 30

    Have added no new defenses not mentioned.

    I ask because of the numerous mentions Iíve seen here of .5ís being risky business in war matches, and Iím hoping to find a baseline for when and/or how to stay fairly balanced as to not be a liability in wars... if possible.

    If I understand correctly, your "hold my own in wars" refers to be able hitting the opposite base to yours? This is a common fallacy about the MM and how bases are placed on the war map. Holding your own is to be able to destroy bases commensurate with your offense. It should not be about the bases opposite to yours on the war map, which is only ranked by defensive strength. Your new Th10 with near full TH10 offense should be able to destroy a mid to max TH10, and not its mirror base, which is likely a max Th9 or a rushed Th10. And yes, your base is lopsided, engineered, or x.5, whatever you want to call it, and it is bad for war.

  4. #24
    Centennial Club 23skidoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenSpa View Post
    If I understand correctly, your "hold my own in wars" refers to be able hitting the opposite base to yours? This is a common fallacy about the MM and how bases are placed on the war map. Holding your own is to be able to destroy bases commensurate with your offense. It should not be about the bases opposite to yours on the war map, which is only ranked by defensive strength. Your new Th10 with near full TH10 offense should be able to destroy a mid to max TH10, and not its mirror base, which is likely a max Th9 or a rushed Th10. And yes, your base is lopsided, engineered, or x.5, whatever you want to call it, and it is bad for war.
    My ‘hold my own in war’, means I usually need to hit up. As a maxed 9, I was already hitting 83ish and up 10’s to try for high % 2 stars so we could win wars. I’m sure that’s not uncommon, it’s just how it is with our roster. Hitting my mirror is meaningless to me. Knowing what type and weight my base usually draws and how my weight effects our matchup based on our total clan roster is where my mind is.

    I don’t want my base to be bad for war (for my clan(lopsided or not)) and that’s why I searched out more opinions. I appreciate yours! Thanks.
    Last edited by 23skidoo; May 9th, 2018 at 03:51 AM.

  5. #25
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    Lots of good feedback here. I think we all probably agree that any progression path cannot be labelled as beneficial, without taking into account the rest of a clans roster.

    X.5 is a bit of an enigma, as it's definition parameters have changed wildly (and understandably) over the years.
    Traditionally, X.5 was the domain of Maxers. A relatively short term progression path prioritising offence over defence, at the beginning of a new Town Hall level, while always planning to drop defences and maintain a maxing progression path.

    In itself, maxing (unless your a fully max TH11) isn't an ideal progression for random war spins. Therefore by historic definition X.5 isn't ideal either.

    That being said, if you are a maxer (like myself), and wish to continue as one, then I'd certainly prioritise offence as a new THX, but don't neglect those defences.
    Good luck to you, and don't worry too much about it!

    p.s. just for historic reference, I've included this post on the subject from a couple of years ago. Please note that a lot of things have changed since the videos I've linked :-

    -------

    There's quite a lot of disjointed posts these days about X.5.

    The trouble is of course that :-
    1) The game moves on, and definitions sway/turn from it's origins.
    2) The term X.5 itself was originally defined by the (war) community itself, and as such is always subject to ambiguity, misinterpretation.


    Disclaimer :- The history of X.5 (and in particular 9.5) goes back well before the videos I have linked below.

    Lets go back to some easily identifiable historic information, as linked below :-

    1) Hulk Files (The Green Man) TH10 Progression 13th February 2015.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pxv6BjZg3w

    Hulk, one of the original innovators of TH9 War strategy attacks (in particular HoLo) showing his 9.5 progression base. From a fully maxed TH9 (with Maxed 30/30 Heroes and complete lava walls), he shows off is base upgrading farming and war troops, and Heroes, with no new defence buildings added. He has built his new traps.

    In the video, Hulk suggested he was going to make a manifesto video of TH9.5 progression, but as far as I'm aware, this video never saw the light of day, because Hulk quit the game shortly after, for "his own" reasons!

    2) Jake from OneHive Being a TownHall 9.5 in Clash 4th March 2015.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U_Ta8SzftY

    Again, Jake goes through the potential benefits of TH9.5, no new defences added, but focus on offence to "build their offence up, to a point where they can take out TH10's, before they start building those TH10 defences"

    Note : At this point, lots (but not all) players believed that your Gold Storages was your war weight, which subsequently was shown to be false. Lots of Youtubers incorrectly published similar weight messages, but hey, I digress...

    To summarise these videos :-

    The whole point of 9.5, was to upgrade your TH10 Offence so that you were "capable" of 3 starring opponents TH10's. To do this you needed Max TH9 plus Heroes.
    TH9.5 was never a upgrade path with the focus on dipping, or 3 star TH9's. This is a common misconception

    Now, fast forward to post March 2016, where the MM changes pushed further focus on Offensive upgrading over defence, and we begin to see new progression paths :-

    a) The traditional fully max TH9s (with 30/30 Heroes and full lavas) upgrading TH10 offence, are still there. These players always intend to drop Infernos because, by definition, they are MAXERS!
    b) The 'Perma 9.5s' , with up to 40/40 Heroes up to full Offence. These players (pre October 2016) had no intention of building Infernos... ever. In fact often (but not always), they were Maxers turned ENGINEERS. In my opinion, this is where the whole 'X.5 is Engineering' debate began to gather speed, as the community began to see more and more of these bases.
    c) The 'Premmie 9.5' , a non maxed TH9 (with eg possibly 20/20 Heroes) RUSHING to TH10 to get those level 5 Valks etc for war. I like to refer to these players as TH9.25.

    In particular, if we consider c), the Premmie/Rushed 9.5s(9.25s), and compare them with the original historical concept of 9.5, there is quite a difference.

    The original concept or goal of a TH9.5 was taking out TH10's, not dipping, or 2 starring mid TH10's with 20/20 Heroes.

    However, as I stated at the top of this post, the game moves on, and history becomes legend, and legend becomes myth, and....

    ----
    Hope this helps!
    Last edited by Skrags; May 9th, 2018 at 08:05 AM.
    Clan Name : SOUTH WEST 45, Clan Tag : #90LP2PL. Highest Win Streak 12!
    Clan Details : Established 2012! Adult, English speaking International Level 12 War Clan (twice a week). Recruitment Thread : https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...H8-s-to-TH11-s My spec: mid TH11, 50/43/17

  6. #26
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    Awesome post from @Skrags, Thank you.

  7. #27
    Ideal progression would be to move up to the next town hall and max walls, camps, lab and CC before moving on to the .5 stuff.

    I have max walls at TH11 but no eagle and a little lower splash so I think I'd be considered a .5?

    I defend against multiple max TH11 attacks with just 96k weight, most due to my walls and a good layout.

  8. #28
    Centennial Club 23skidoo's Avatar
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    Nice stuff Skrags. I’ve read and watched the videos of that historical reference before and it’s a great starting point for understanding the origins of this type of build. I also think the main point that I’m coming away with from this is that matches are so very dependent on the total clan roster more-so than the individual bases within the roster, and that I shouldn’t worry about it.

    Ripple nailed the true question I was getting at, and Tank reiterated what he’s told me in the past about peeing or getting off the pot, and the rest of you wise gentlemen reminded me that I’m merely one base within a roster so don’t pretend one base is overly important when it comes to matches.

  9. #29
    Centennial Club 23skidoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    Ideal progression would be to move up to the next town hall and max walls, camps, lab and CC before moving on to the .5 stuff.

    I have max walls at TH11 but no eagle and a little lower splash so I think I'd be considered a .5?

    I defend against multiple max TH11 attacks with just 96k weight, most due to my walls and a good layout.
    When you say the other .5 stuff are you talking defenses or troops and spells or all of that? Keeping walls up to snuff is a great point and layouts are for sure key! It’ll be awhile before I feel comfortable defending with my base but I need to figure that out sooner rather than later. Which brings me back to selective defensive upgrades...

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23skidoo View Post
    When you say the other .5 stuff are you talking defenses or troops and spells or all of that? Keeping walls up to snuff is a great point and layouts are for sure key! It’ll be awhile before I feel comfortable defending with my base but I need to figure that out sooner rather than later. Which brings me back to selective defensive upgrades...
    with current MM, selective offensive upgrade probably is even more important

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