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Thread: 4 Town-hall 11 vs 11 Town-hall 11!

  1. #1
    Junior Member Kyle1992's Avatar
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    4 Town-hall 11 vs 11 Town-hall 11!

    My clan just got the worst match-up I have ever seen. We are doing a 30v30 and just got matched up with a clan who has SEVEN more TH11s than we do! All of which have a max lavaloon attack. A matchmaking fix can't come soon enough.

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    Skrags's Avatar
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    Can you give any more details of the roster breakdown?
    Clan Tag?
    Clan Name : SOUTH WEST 45, Clan Tag : #90LP2PL. Highest Win Streak 12!
    Clan Details : Established 2012! Adult, English speaking International Level 12 War Clan (twice a week). Recruitment Thread : https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...H8-s-to-TH11-s My spec: mid TH11, 50/47/20

  3. #3
    Senior Member SkyValker's Avatar
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    https://cocp.it/clan/P0998CLJ

    Assuming this is the clan, from OP's previous posts.

    Don't need to scratch too far, to see the TH11 down in 11th position, the TH10's mixed in with TH9's.

    OP - all the evidence I'm seeing, is that if iyou have engineered bases in your War, you are far more likely to meet engineered enemies. And being 'lightly' engineered is a pretty awful place to be, when you get match with heavier engineers.

    As an aside, according to Cocp.it, this is a very mildly engineered clan (4%) with just one engineered base.
    What does this website class as engineered? The TH11 that is below 7x TH10's is NOT marked as engineered. How?

  4. #4
    Pro Member nobeone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkyValker View Post
    https://cocp.it/clan/P0998CLJ

    Assuming this is the clan, from OP's previous posts.

    Don't need to scratch too far, to see the TH11 down in 11th position, the TH10's mixed in with TH9's.

    OP - all the evidence I'm seeing, is that if iyou have engineered bases in your War, you are far more likely to meet engineered enemies. And being 'lightly' engineered is a pretty awful place to be, when you get match with heavier engineers.

    As an aside, according to Cocp.it, this is a very mildly engineered clan (4%) with just one engineered base.
    What does this website class as engineered? The TH11 that is below 7x TH10's is NOT marked as engineered. How?
    I have long been very suspicious of cocp.it engineering numbers, they use their own algorithm, it is sort of explained in the info:

    "aENG
    stands for Average ENGineering and approximates the percentage of engineered bases in recent wars. The detection algorithm for what is engineered and what is not is very similar to the one used in displaying war details (see "war details tracking" section on this page). But instead of one war it uses up to 8 last war details recorded for the clan and thus it actually can use more information at once to more carefully detect engineering. It detects only 2 types of engineering (though the most popular ones):


    • optimized offense with specific war-oriented upgrading plan
    • offensive strength notably higher than the defensive strength AKA loopsided base"



    But for me it flags anything it thinks has optimized (sic) offence (huh? Isn't that everybody that wars at some point?) so it seems if you e.g. get to TH8 and focus on getting lvl 3 dragons first, you are flagged as engineered. My clan runs balanced accounts (as best we know), all defences placed, and as we progress we are flagged as engineered some wars, not others. Treat with extreme caution. I suggest it is close to useless except at extremes. I have put out a balanced line up, all defences placed, nothing engineered in any real sense, been up against defenceless mini max, but our clan had the higher engineering rating

    EDIT: See later post, it seems my clans aENG score was out of date, cocp.it updated for me, it is now 0% as I would hope, they say it should auto update every month but ... seems it didn't for me, Ihave my war log closed which may not help
    Last edited by nobeone; April 20th, 2018 at 11:50 AM. Reason: Updated with quote from cocp.it ...

  5. #5
    Forum Superstar TankSinatra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobeone View Post
    I have long been very suspicious of cocp.it engineering numbers, they use their own algorithm, it is sort of explained in the info:
    They're limited to what's pushed out to the public by SC. I think it works well for my purposes as a quick peek. You might want to ask on the site about your situation, the comments are a cesspool but they're pretty responsive to substantive questions.
    I've asked in the past why .5s don't seem to count as engineered, answer was its due to the limits of what info they have, and they don't see it as an issue since .5s are ineffective.
    It's always the closet engineers that are the most bitter. Trying to maintain a righteous pose while doing exactly what they claim to hate, lashing out at anyone that points out the obvious.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobeone View Post
    I have long been very suspicious of cocp.it engineering numbers, they use their own algorithm, it is sort of explained in the info:

    "aENG
    stands for Average ENGineering and approximates the percentage of engineered bases in recent wars. The detection algorithm for what is engineered and what is not is very similar to the one used in displaying war details (see "war details tracking" section on this page). But instead of one war it uses up to 8 last war details recorded for the clan and thus it actually can use more information at once to more carefully detect engineering. It detects only 2 types of engineering (though the most popular ones):


    • optimized offense with specific war-oriented upgrading plan
    • offensive strength notably higher than the defensive strength AKA loopsided base"



    But for me it flags anything it thinks has optimized (sic) offence (huh? Isn't that everybody that wars at some point?) so it seems if you e.g. get to TH8 and focus on getting lvl 3 dragons first, you are flagged as engineered. My clan runs balanced accounts (as best we know), all defences placed, and as we progress we are flagged as engineered some wars, not others. Treat with extreme caution. I suggest it is close to useless except at extremes. I have put out a balanced line up, all defences placed, nothing engineered in any real sense, been up against defenceless mini max, but our clan had the higher engineering rating
    Yeah. I was against this site for a long time as they were flagging my bases as engi, due to troop upgrading. Only my main ever stepped out of line from normal upgrade.
    Have since found them very useful for a bit of spying on next opposition tho.

  7. #7
    Pro Member nobeone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    Yeah. I was against this site for a long time as they were flagging my bases as engi, due to troop upgrading. Only my main ever stepped out of line from normal upgrade.
    Have since found them very useful for a bit of spying on next opposition tho.
    Oh please don't get me wrong, they are a very usefull source of information, just suggesting, that in my case at least, the aENG calculation seems to be waaaaayyyyyy off. It seems the Russian actions aimed at stopping Telegram have removed cocp.it's database server ... so how much use they will be in the future is a political football ...

  8. #8
    Pro Member nobeone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TankSinatra View Post
    They're limited to what's pushed out to the public by SC. I think it works well for my purposes as a quick peek. You might want to ask on the site about your situation, the comments are a cesspool but they're pretty responsive to substantive questions.
    I've asked in the past why .5s don't seem to count as engineered, answer was its due to the limits of what info they have, and they don't see it as an issue since .5s are ineffective.
    Turns out the data was stale, probably from the "old days" (many months ago) when we ran .5s, they refreshed it for me and behold: 0% aENG as I would expect ...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobeone View Post
    Turns out the data was stale, probably from the "old days" (many months ago) when we ran .5s, they refreshed it for me and behold: 0% aENG as I would expect ...
    Yay. I also checked on us yesterday. I agree that it appears to have changed. We run a dragon 9, every war, sitting low. We also use the rushed 11 sometimes, if he bends my arm enough, with only max dragon, in a 15v. We are 10.4% engineered, which sounds about right. My niggle, whereby they flag my mid build accounts has gone (for now).
    So far as SkyValks conundrum, with that 11 sitting below the 10s, and not being flagged. I haven't checked, but is it possible that only the hall colour is rushed, and the off/def is still balanced, at a lower level than the norm for an 11.
    Last edited by joshsgrandad; April 20th, 2018 at 12:37 PM.

  10. #10
    Tomville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobeone View Post
    Oh please don't get me wrong, they are a very usefull source of information, just suggesting, that in my case at least, the aENG calculation seems to be waaaaayyyyyy off. It seems the Russian actions aimed at stopping Telegram have removed cocp.it's database server ... so how much use they will be in the future is a political football ...
    Itís dodgy in terms of missing things that are and marking things that arenít and struggles on anything rushed, especially things rushed with no war optimisation building going on. At one point I went to th10 early on an account, and awhile after then it had th10 mid level offence, th10 mid level royals, all th10 defences placed and at at least th9 level, max infernos, max xbows, th9-10 level everything else plus 2 leftover th8 level mortars that I hadnít upgraded as a th9... and cocp.it flagged that engineered!
    Last edited by Tomville; April 20th, 2018 at 12:45 PM.
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