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Thread: Relaxed playstyles check BUT introduced nerfs weight tax or 2222s minimum base weight

  1. #21
    Pro Member nobeone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skrags View Post
    ... I would say that the MM algorithm is doing a pretty good job. All of the wars were winnable for both sides from the off.
    Ah but those of us that don't run engineered bases and don't want to face engineered opponents have found it has gone from tricky to impossible to avoid enginering ... IMHO it isn't just about whether both sides could win that makes a fun war, we want to meet similar playing styles, for those of us running all defences placed balanced bases (usual disclaimer: as best we know how) in order to avoid engineering, we seem to have seen a shift in the last week or two ... I am not surprised Tank does not see this shift does not mean that it isn't happening to some of us, I do agree one clan is statistically insignificant, and real data is thin on the ground, but it seems there are more threads than usual and a number of us regular forumers reporting similar issues really since the war event ... I would say circumstantial evidence is mounting ...

  2. #22
    Forum Elder Piper139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobeone View Post
    Ah but those of us that don't run engineered bases and don't want to face engineered opponents have found it has gone from tricky to impossible to avoid enginering ... IMHO it isn't just about whether both sides could win that makes a fun war, we want to meet similar playing styles, for those of us running all defences placed balanced bases (usual disclaimer: as best we know how) in order to avoid engineering, we seem to have seen a shift in the last week or two ... I am not surprised Tank does not see this shift does not mean that it isn't happening to some of us, I do agree one clan is statistically insignificant, and real data is thin on the ground, but it seems there are more threads than usual and a number of us regular forumers reporting similar issues really since the war event ... I would say circumstantial evidence is mounting ...
    I can't remember the last war we had that didn't have at least one lower defense higher offense base. So no change for us as afar as I can tell. That could be due to our clan style. We go the .5 route to upgrading and emphasize heroes. For example, I am th 10 with l 37 queen, 35 king, no new defenses besides the traps and archer tower and cannon. I'm on my second round of upgrades for the archers and cannons. I did upgrade my xbows to help with the nerf. I also have about 70 l11 walls rest l10. I have lavaloon and bowitch maxed for th10. Otoh, we also have the knucklehead th10 with teen heroes, l9 walls no maxed offense but max inferno and xbows.

    To return to your point about matching styles of play, I don't think that is what supercel is trying to do. Imo, they are trying to give you a fair match. That may be a fellow maxed clan, and engineered clan, or something in between.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alishr99 View Post
    the benefits with all dip attack across the maps except th11 anchor at the top is less stress.... more 3 star fresh hit and more spare to scout and hit top bases
    I see your point Alishr. But Frain is correct. If the defenceless is dipping for the 6 pack, then the benefit is simply an illusion, as a balanced 8, 9, or maybe even a 10, can 3 star same hall.
    Maybe Frain should share this wisdom more often. If the lop sider is simply cleaning up, to allow more scouts at the top, then its main success in war, is in ruffling the oppositions feathers. Any account that can hit the top should be, unless the clan, tactically, does reach/ dip attacks in war.

  4. #24
    Pro Member nobeone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piper139 View Post
    To return to your point about matching styles of play, I don't think that is what supercel is trying to do. Imo, they are trying to give you a fair match. That may be a fellow maxed clan, and engineered clan, or something in between.
    I agree that recently it looks like they are not trying to match playing style so much, but for a while there they were and there was some SueprCell talk that was what war mm was supposed to do - match playing styles. It seemed to work for a while, but perhaps had other side effects that are equally problematic? As the title of this thread suggests, it seems they don't do that so much anymore ... and that is my experience too. Shame, to me matching playing styles is the way to combat the complaints about engineering, if a no defence max offence engineer meets a similar roster, there can be no legitimate complaints (sure we still all see the complaints, but a little digging on cocp.it seems to make them go quiet very quickly), ditto 0.5s meet 0.5s, high defence low offence engineers meet similar, maxers meet maxers and so on. I know it is not that simple, but it did seem to be working to some extent for a while, so why change it?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobeone View Post
    I agree that recently it looks like they are not trying to match playing style so much, but for a while there they were and there was some SueprCell talk that was what war mm was supposed to do - match playing styles. It seemed to work for a while, but perhaps had other side effects that are equally problematic? As the title of this thread suggests, it seems they don't do that so much anymore ... and that is my experience too. Shame, to me matching playing styles is the way to combat the complaints about engineering, if a no defence max offence engineer meets a similar roster, there can be no legitimate complaints (sure we still all see the complaints, but a little digging on cocp.it seems to make them go quiet very quickly), ditto 0.5s meet 0.5s, high defence low offence engineers meet similar, maxers meet maxers and so on. I know it is not that simple, but it did seem to be working to some extent for a while, so why change it?
    I agree. Play style matching does make for a better playing experience for maxer/ balance style users. Probably less so for the engineers, as it does more to negate what they are setting out to do. Not sure the shift is anything more sinister than simply the next round of tweaks tho. A few weeks, and all will move again, if history is anything to go by.
    This war, we seem to have been hit with a bit of opposition shuffling, which we usually avoid, even tho we have a low 9. In our case tho, it could be the MM change, or the fact my mate caved in to the "want ins", and we are too heavy on the 9s. Either way, I don't like it when we have to rely on them to hit the right oppo base, as kids usually know best, and we have less accounts in to clear up the mess.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    I agree. Play style matching does make for a better playing experience for maxer/ balance style users. Probably less so for the engineers, as it does more to negate what they are setting out to do. Not sure the shift is anything more sinister than simply the next round of tweaks tho. A few weeks, and all will move again, if history is anything to go by.
    This war, we seem to have been hit with a bit of opposition shuffling, which we usually avoid, even tho we have a low 9. In our case tho, it could be the MM change, or the fact my mate caved in to the "want ins", and we are too heavy on the 9s. Either way, I don't like it when we have to rely on them to hit the right oppo base, as kids usually know best, and we have less accounts in to clear up the mess.
    It does not have to be maxer clan, we as engineered clan also enjoying current MM, because we can burn those "immoral" copy paster rushed engineered clan easier then the league style maxer clan, lol.

    We are facing 100% engineered clan in more then 1 year now, lol
    Last edited by samratulangi; April 17th, 2018 at 10:53 AM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by samratulangi View Post
    It does not have to be maxer clan, we as engineered clan also enjoying current MM, because we can burn those "immoral" copy paster rushed engineered clan easier then the league style maxer clan, lol.

    We are facing 100% engineered clan in more then 1 year now, lol
    Apologies Sam. Wasn't meaning to be derogatory. I don't see myself as standing on any kind of moral ground. Like many others, I strive to uncover a way of optimising, Only I/we do it using standard/balanced bases.
    Main point is that balanced builds is a definite prototype (taken to extreme by pure maxxer), in that every hall will appear the same, only divided by current build state. And engineering can be anything from slightly optimised (eg, missing/ under built pieces), down to the 1 cannon wonders. Suppose both can enjoy fair/ equal match up, but the balanced will look more of a mirror.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    Apologies Sam. Wasn't meaning to be derogatory. I don't see myself as standing on any kind of moral ground. Like many others, I strive to uncover a way of optimising, Only I/we do it using standard/balanced bases.
    Main point is that balanced builds is a definite prototype (taken to extreme by pure maxxer), in that every hall will appear the same, only divided by current build state. And engineering can be anything from slightly optimised (eg, missing/ under built pieces), down to the 1 cannon wonders. Suppose both can enjoy fair/ equal match up, but the balanced will look more of a mirror.
    No, i didn’t say u r having that attitude mate, just sayin real engineering clan also having fun now stomping others engineered clan, lol

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vikingchief View Post
    Hi, Anyone agree that the general trend both in your personal wars (appearance again of defencless bases and clans with significantly different playstyles to you) and general reporting on forum (anti engineer threads being more common, often followed by a OH, WE WON! nowdays) mean the playstyles check has been loosened but some sort of tax is being applied to having heavy offence and weak defence?

    We are matching clans post update (full not optional) where they have defences bases and the like again BUT they dont have the overall advantage like they used to. Seams possible they are using a weight tax or a minimum base weight in addition to a now loosened playstyle metric?

    Anyone get the same impression?
    No, sorry to say, but there is no change, we're running defenceless th11 and no change. Not a little bit.

  10. #30
    Forum Elder SuperStorm103's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobeone View Post
    Ah but those of us that don't run engineered bases and don't want to face engineered opponents have found it has gone from tricky to impossible to avoid enginering ... IMHO it isn't just about whether both sides could win that makes a fun war, we want to meet similar playing styles, for those of us running all defences placed balanced bases (usual disclaimer: as best we know how) in order to avoid engineering, we seem to have seen a shift in the last week or two ... I am not surprised Tank does not see this shift does not mean that it isn't happening to some of us, I do agree one clan is statistically insignificant, and real data is thin on the ground, but it seems there are more threads than usual and a number of us regular forumers reporting similar issues really since the war event ... I would say circumstantial evidence is mounting ...
    Yes, I have been quite frustrated with the recent changes to the match maker....err war finder. As far as winability goes, its doing great.

    My biggest issue currently is that we are matching clans with defenseless bases even though our bottom account is a 61K TH9. The usual bottom 5 bases for the opposing clan are defenseless. Two last war had 50/50/20 offense. Important to say here though that it did not help the opposing clan. War was high destruction % for both sides as usual, but they have had a severe disadvantage in defenses. Enough so that we won the last three wars (which were against these rosters using defenseless bases).

    The sad thing is is that because of the style of clans we are matching, we have so many useless attacks. We use 15 attacks to clear 75% of their roster. that leaves us with 25 attacks for the top 4 or 5 bases. The problem is that, only 8 of those attacks actually have a change at succeeding. All the leftover th9's and th10's have just max th11 targets left to attack. These wars are so boring except for the top 5 players in the war. Not to mention 5 people get the pleasure of attacking a defenseless base. No fun for them. Nothing to plan, nothing challenging, just drop your AQ and a few healers.....Nothing to learn and not good for practice.

    One of the matches was so bad as far as roster vs roster, I posted in the bugs and issues part of the forums lol. I mean...we had our bottom th9's matched against th6's and D-Less 11's, our 89K th10's were lane matched with th9's....The only challenging bases were the top 4 which were full th11's. I think the opposing clans roster went something like this:

    11
    11
    11
    11
    9.5
    9
    9
    9
    9
    9
    9
    9
    9
    9
    11
    9
    8
    11
    11
    3

    Yeah. not of fan of the matching quality currently. But happy with the balance of offense. We are getting a bit of a destruction boost too up from 97%.....last 3 wars were 98.05%, 98.40%, 97.55% (these wars had a minimum of 4 full th11's on each roster). All those defense nerfs are really showing.....
    DeathStorm-10|22/23|2148*|FireStorm-10|17/20|2178*|SuperStorm-9|13/15|2147*
    DragonStorm-9|8/8|1529*|PerfectStorm-9|8/10|1428*|BrainStorm-10|10/16|1452*

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