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Thread: Engineering still a huge problem - on the brink of jacking it in

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGreenbearUK View Post
    Hi Skrags. Yes our number 2 is max TH10 with late 30 heroes.

    GB
    This can be tricky then. Post July 2017, there was a huge explosion of forum complaints about TH11 disparity. My own reflections from my own clan were that our big TH10's were pulling decent TH11's, not just weak ones back then. Historically we had pulled weakfish TH11's as I identified in this thread from May 2017 about 'Heroes v Warden' wars :-

    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...es-v-Wardens-!

    After July, we had a really tough time with wars, mainly because of our big TH10's that wanted to completely max before moving up.
    In the end we bit the bullet, and moved up slightly earlier than our maxing preference would like.

    To summarise, I don't think having big TH10's (with max def/off, and near max Heroes/Walls) is a good place to be. Just adding lvl3 Bowlers and 1 spell slot in your CC can make a huge difference to a players offensive capability on relatively similar bases.
    Just something to bear in mind!
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGreenbearUK View Post
    Thanks for ALL the replies on this thread. Iím not surprised many others are also experiencing the same problems.

    GB
    My gripe with MM is that if you have high level heroes, you seem to "pull" a higher TH. I know there's more to MM than this, but our clan generally gets the BK and AQ to near max level before upgrading the TH. When we hit the war search button, we are ALWAYS short a few IT's or EA's.

    Generally, the clans we match with just do bully attacks (TH10 vs TH9 & TH11 vs TH10) because they have the TH advantage. For me, there is just no fun being a part of wars were this is the norm. That's why I quit. I'm not saying these are gimme 3 stars, but I used to love watching and being a part of wars where the TH9's attacked the TH9's. Then the TH10's needed to kick in a few attacks to clean up. Then it was TH10 vs TH10...and so on. These days, our clan often has wars where the opponent doesn't even use all their TH9 attacks because they have extra TH10's.

    Maybe this was the game SuperCell intended to create. Maybe I'm not a real chief. Probably a bit of both. I've read the "if you don't beat 'em, join 'em" crowd, but this style of game is not a game I'm interested in playing anymore.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by vhs View Post
    My gripe with MM is that if you have high level heroes, you seem to "pull" a higher TH. I know there's more to MM than this, but our clan generally gets the BK and AQ to near max level before upgrading the TH. When we hit the war search button, we are ALWAYS short a few IT's or EA's.

    Generally, the clans we match with just do bully attacks (TH10 vs TH9 & TH11 vs TH10) because they have the TH advantage. For me, there is just no fun being a part of wars were this is the norm. That's why I quit. I'm not saying these are gimme 3 stars, but I used to love watching and being a part of wars where the TH9's attacked the TH9's. Then the TH10's needed to kick in a few attacks to clean up. Then it was TH10 vs TH10...and so on. These days, our clan often has wars where the opponent doesn't even use all their TH9 attacks because they have extra TH10's.

    Maybe this was the game SuperCell intended to create. Maybe I'm not a real chief. Probably a bit of both. I've read the "if you don't beat 'em, join 'em" crowd, but this style of game is not a game I'm interested in playing anymore.
    This has been true for quite a while, it used to be heroes vs infernos. We always felt we had the heroes had the advantage.

    A maxed th9/10 is probably closer to a new or rushed th, one higher, than it is to a newish same th level. This could be the way the mm is set up unintentionally or is intentional and is an effort to push the perma maxed bases to hit the upgrade.

  4. #14
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    Currently the mm is based on weight. If you feel the other side having more than than you the very simply solution we can all do is hit the upgrade button and move to th11. If SC changes the mm no matter what they do a absolute maxed th (currently th11) will not be at a disadvantage.
    There are far more advantages to upgrading before maxing a previous th level than disadvantages. We really need to take a look at what we can do not demand SC to do something.
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  5. #15
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    Engineering has destroyed OUR game.


    Having started this latest engineering thread last week some players advised removing our TH11 out of war during a '15' war. I’ve done this and searched for a '10' war with 3 balanced (one max) TH10’s, 4 TH9’s and 3 TH8’s. None of these bases are rushed, .5 OR engineered.


    Not only are we drawn against FOUR TH10’s, their no.6 is an engineered TH11 with 260 troop space and TH8 defences with Level1 Xbows and Warden Level5. Their no.9 is a heavily engineered TH8 with barely any defence - fully engineered.


    The search was done approximately 7pm GMT Friday evening and the clan we’re against are from Bangladesh.


    Also the player that has the engineered TH11 base is doing very unusual things and keeps modding their base. I visited the last clan they fought and he did the same there. The player is also constantly changing their name and I have screenshots showing the 3 name changes in just 24 hours. I have taken screenshots of the 3 changes and sent them to Supercell via Contact Us


    When are Supercell going to address engineering AND modding both in the game in general and most importantly Clan Wars?



    GB (still fighting the corner of the avid gamer)

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGreenbearUK View Post
    Engineering has destroyed OUR game.


    Having started this latest engineering thread last week some players advised removing our TH11 out of war during a '15' war. I’ve done this and searched for a '10' war with 3 balanced (one max) TH10’s, 4 TH9’s and 3 TH8’s. None of these bases are rushed, .5 OR engineered.


    Not only are we drawn against FOUR TH10’s, their no.6 is an engineered TH11 with 260 troop space and TH8 defences with Level1 Xbows and Warden Level5. Their no.9 is a heavily engineered TH8 with barely any defence - fully engineered.


    The search was done approximately 7pm GMT Friday evening and the clan we’re against are from Bangladesh.


    Also the player that has the engineered TH11 base is doing very unusual things and keeps modding their base. I visited the last clan they fought and he did the same there. The player is also constantly changing their name and I have screenshots showing the 3 name changes in just 24 hours. I have taken screenshots of the 3 changes and sent them to Supercell via Contact Us


    When are Supercell going to address engineering AND modding both in the game in general and most importantly Clan Wars?



    GB (still fighting the corner of the avid gamer)
    Engineering (which is simply base optimisation which i guarentee you that you also do, in a way to maintain your moral superiority of course) and modding are totally different things, and to try group them together to infer they are both cheating is kinda weak and kinda cheap.

    Then you dont seam to take on board new reality, supercell has take massive strides to make war more competitive and to take away matchmaker advantage. They have not got it perfect yet but they are halfway there, If you cant see that your not looking.

    Iether you can try moan until supercell gives you exactly what you want, or how about you optimise your bases slightly more to the current matchmaker to get the wars your hoping these threads will help you achieve.
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  7. #17
    Pro Member nobeone's Avatar
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    While war mm has been tweaked, and I have even seen here engineers claim there is no advantage in engineering (?!!?), it seems to me engineering is alive and well, war mm still weights things stupidly, and there is no way to avoid engineering matches. So I have sympathy with the OP in so much that us (morally superior, war mm inferior ) maxer types who look forwards to wars against similar playing styles just are not getting the wars we want. You can tell me they are fairer now than they have even been, and it may or may not be true, it doesn't alter the poor experience of warring against an engineered clan. In an ideal war I would meet a clan with similar balanced all defences placed bases as ours, we may be up or down a base or two at a TH level but it would be close enough to demand each TH level tries to 3 star their own TH level, pitting base building against attack skills. When we face an engineering opponents we are never up on bases at the top TH levels where it matters (and I mean I don't ever recall that case) and we watch them dip, double dip and even triple dip our bases while at least some of us have the unchallenging task of clearing low defence oddities ... this is no fun for us. Yeah sometimes we win, sometimes we lose, but these are not fun matches. What is worse, they are now the norm, we mostly meet engineered clans. I really really hope Supercell's promised fix comes quickly and is effective, but I fear it will be neither. I continue to avoid engineering ourselves as it is not what most of the clan with single accounts want, nor what I want. Perhaps it would be better for us to join a league, but I am not sure we can raise a roster of the right size ... so we random spin and get more and more disappointed with the result ...

  8. #18
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    Guys. Lets first change the term engineer to optimise. An account that optimises by having high offence, has to concede ground on defence, to be in the weight bracket in which his base actually counted ( heavier defence would increase his weight score in MM). His advantage is in having 2 attempts in which to bring a positive return from war. Nothing more, nothing less.
    I often look at how many posts people have done, and look at what knowledge they have acquired in their time here, which is the reason most of us are here. I think I have learned a couple of "key" pointers, which our clan can use to be either at an advantage, or at least not at a disadvantage. I also see mistakes (in my opinion) that other people make, maybe causing their issues with matching.
    We use a TH10 anchor, big enough to draw a full 10, but ours doesn't carry IT.. Their base will be around 85k, ours 75k.. advantage us, as that 10k will be gained back somewhere ( and the IT are rubbish anyway, rage, heal, good night). We run 2 almost max 9s, but with 20ish heroes. Big enough to do their job, but too small to pull next level. We run anti loon bases from TH9, as the most OP attack at 9 is the loon variant, stop that, and big walls will stall ground at that level normally. We taper our roster, and balance it. Plenty of 9s, with 8s, couple of 7s, and usually a 6. Roster engineering?.. maybe.. optimising.. definitely. Most of our roster is owned by 2 guys, with a main, at 10 (mine doesn't war), and mini's from 9 down. That gives us experience advantage, as our time at these, and higher halls, allows us to be comfortable at lower hall attacks, whereas a lot of the opposition will be at the level with their main.
    So really, lop siders get a lot of bad press, maybe deservedly, but if we are willing to learn, we will all optimise in our own way, or forever suffer the agony of bad spins.
    Our clan is almost full, and we only have 1 lop sided base. But, in my opinion, war is built around optimising, even with balanced bases in a balanced roster. And even in a "fair" war, which we mostly get, on paper, the experience factor can still make it optimised.
    Last edited by joshsgrandad; April 14th, 2018 at 09:59 PM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    Guys. Lets first change the term engineer to optimise. An account that optimises by having high offence, has to concede ground on defence, to be in the weight bracket in which his base actually counted ( heavier defence would increase his weight score in MM). His advantage is in having 2 attempts in which to bring a positive return from war. Nothing more, nothing less.
    I often look at how many posts people have done, and look at what knowledge they have acquired in their time here, which is the reason most of us are here. I think I have learned a couple of "key" pointers, which our clan can use to be either at an advantage, or at least not at a disadvantage. I also see mistakes (in my opinion) that other people make, maybe causing their issues with matching.
    We use a TH10 anchor, big enough to draw a full 10, but ours doesn't carry IT.. Their base will be around 85k, ours 75k.. advantage us, as that 10k will be gained back somewhere ( and the IT are rubbish anyway, rage, heal, good night). We run 2 almost max 9s, but with 20ish heroes. Big enough to do their job, but too small to pull next level. We run anti loon bases from TH9, as the most OP attack at 9 is the loon variant, stop that, and big walls will stall ground at that level normally. We taper our roster, and balance it. Plenty of 9s, with 8s, couple of 7s, and usually a 6. Roster engineering?.. maybe.. optimising.. definitely. Most of our roster is owned by 2 guys, with a main, at 10 (mine doesn't war), and mini's from 9 down. That gives us experience advantage, as our time at these, and higher halls, allows us to be comfortable at lower hall attacks, whereas a lot of the opposition will be at the level with their main.
    So really, lop siders get a lot of bad press, maybe deservedly, but if we are willing to learn, we will all optimise in our own way, or forever suffer the agony of bad spins.
    Our clan is almost full, and we only have 1 lop sided base. But, in my opinion, war is built around optimising, even with balanced bases in a balanced roster. And even in a "fair" war, which we mostly get, on paper, the experience factor can still make it optimised.
    good post but I would just add optimising refers to a lot more than offence rushed (troops dominant) lopsiding, including but not limited to.

    - defence lopsiding
    - defence manicuring
    - offence manicuring
    - hero rushing
    - rostar engineering (anchor bases, low loading, strategic weight steps, traffic jam avoidance etc)
    - account rightsizing (timmay theory - credit humbob)
    - gap theory (exploiting probabalisticd gaps in opponents likely lane by lane comparitive strucure so you mostly get lane based advantage)
    - many more

    I hope supercell makes wars even more even and competitive, with just the right leans on just the right items (heroes, wall), but until then Its up to you to optimise your bases a little bit, and while being hopeful supercell will sort this out, so whatever you can in the interum to make wars fun. Which it appears you do.
    Last edited by Vikingchief; April 17th, 2018 at 09:32 AM.
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  10. #20
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    We are not seeing overtly engineered clans on a regular bases.

    There's always a little bit but not too much. Like TH8s not adding bomb towers.

    In our last war we did get an engineered clan. Just one TH10 in the middle of the map. COCP showed it three starring a TH10 at the top of an opponents map in a prior war. It has level 1 troops so it had to use power potion. It must have been out of PP during our war, it attacked only a TH8. We won the war. Two attacks with power potion and the outcome would have been different. We did not three star their top base.

    Our next war starts in a few hours and no engineers, well there is the missing bomb towers but that's it.

    We've gone 24 wars without a loss.

    If you are constantly getting engineered clans, there is something in your roster causing that. Or extremely bad luck.

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