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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Cloud Control - All About Clouds and Our Proposed Solutions

  1. #31
    Forum Veteran Rak2180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Maverick View Post
    So, either way, choice 1/2 I'll get attacked and I'lllose Maximum amount of 33 trophies and I'll still be with a profit of 1 trophies(that's only by not playing during virtual guard), which I can gain in next attacks. If I play during virtual guard, I should be online until troops gets ready or I can gem them to attack( revenue will be on place) so, either way I'll be at a profit with trophies for that particular day.
    This won't remove the clouds, but it will definitely make it simple and maximum 15-30mins of clouding which is better than 12-16hrs of clouding.
    Trophy gain/loss is a different issue.As per your idea for reducing clouds, go through these to know why it won't work

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiler View Post
    Reduce the shield lengthfor Legend League players

    The idea:
    Well,I said it earlier, didn't I? Part of the problem is that people are allowed tosit under shield without fear of attack. This takes away from the availablebases

    The discussion:
    Yes. Kind of. But ashield doesn't mean a player isn't online. People are still going to sitonline, with or without a shield. The only way this could really work is ifLegend players were kicked off without a shield at a high enough rate toaccount for all of the people searching for a base. That's just not a funsituation. And the middle ground isn't much better. Say you kick people offtwice as quickly as we do now to force twice as many defenses. Even if no onegets upset about being kicked off and forced to take a defense twice as often,clouds still aren't being fixed. You might reduce the wait time from six hours to three or four,at best. Is it better? I suppose. But it's far from a solution.

    The verdict: I just said it, didn'tI? Forcing people to take extra defenses isn't fun for defending players, notto mention it makes trophy pushing twice as hard. It also doesn't fix clouds.This is not a good solution.

    Completely remove the Village Guard for Legend League players
    The idea:
    Thisis another one that I mentioned. Legends are able to sit with a Village Guardand go offline without fear of attack. Get rid of that, and you've got yourselfa way to alleviate clouds.

    The discussion:
    Well,no. And this won't even take a lengthy paragraph. The purpose of the VG is tosimulate activity so that a player doesn't have to watch their device at alltimes. It frees them up to do whatever they want. Usually they sit in cloudsanyway. And that's kind of the point. All it does is simulate activity. You getthe same effect by just sitting online. The VG is just a quality of lifeimprovement. It's no different fundamentally from touching your screen everyfour and a half minutes. Since the VG expires at the same time that a playerwould be kicked off normally for PBT, it's not affecting anything.

    The verdict: No dice. This is themost "nothing" solution of the bunch. Granted, it doesn't create newproblems like other suggestions, but it also doesn't fix any.


    Completely remove the shield for Legend League players

    The idea:
    I don't feel like I need to go over the idea here. I did it for the other shieldidea. Same thing

    The discussion:
    Don't forget: Any time a Legend attacks through their shield, they're naturallyshortening it. So the luckier a Legend player is at finding targets throughtheir shield, the closer they are to this reality of having little to noshield. So what a shield really does in Legends is gives more time to theunluckier players to find a target.

    The verdict:
    This doesn't help any more than a shortened shield would, as it isn't really adifferent suggestion. In addition, you're taking away an equalizer that allowsLegend players who have bad luck finding a base keep up with the players thatthe base-finding gods smile on.


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by vlix View Post
    Hmm.. you forgot another solution: Limit the number of attacks a Legend players can do.
    For example: 10 attacks per day.

    What about Legends that want to farm loots?
    SC can increase the Legend League Bonus significantly..

    How about it? What are the Pros and Cons?

    And the solutions in the OP is not a standalone solution, they can be combined.
    For example: Widen Parameters for Legend can be combined with Bot Bases.
    And trophy offers for Bot bases can be minimized too, for example: only get max 3 cups on Bot bases, so hopefully it's not 30k cups by the end of the season..
    Well 10 is clearly too high on the numbers Onyx provides as 4 leaves clouds pretty much exactly as they are... so what would it be then, 3, 2? That helps fix clouds but at the expense of not being able to play. Combining the various proposed solutions combines their associated problems, and perhaps even creates some new problems in that synergy.
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  3. #33
    Forum Veteran vlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomville View Post
    Well 10 is clearly too high on the numbers Onyx provides as 4 leaves clouds pretty much exactly as they are... so what would it be then, 3, 2? That helps fix clouds but at the expense of not being able to play. Combining the various proposed solutions combines their associated problems, and perhaps even creates some new problems in that synergy.
    Yes, my example of 10 per day is clearly too high.
    I just did a quick math, and the current top 10 players have an average of 8.9 wins per day.

    Onyx 4 wins per day is the average for the whole Legends.
    If we limit the attacks to 5 per day, those that are currently above average will attack less.
    However, those that are currently below average doesn't necessarily attack more.

    Another positive from this is that high legends are used to the "casual" situation the cloud creates.
    Press attack, and then proceed to do other real life stuff until a base is found.
    I'm guessing this is why some high Legend don't like the PVP idea..

    The limited attacks per day will create this "casual" situation. As you can relax after you've done all your attacks.

    The same number of attacks for every Legend will also create more competition and skill based Leaderboard.
    As each and every attack counts, top players will need to maintain high cups for each and every attacks; those that can 3 stars the most willl likely be in the top spots.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by vlix View Post
    Yes, my example of 10 per day is clearly too high.
    I just did a quick math, and the current top 10 players have an average of 8.9 wins per day.

    Onyx 4 wins per day is the average for the whole Legends.
    If we limit the attacks to 5 per day, those that are currently above average will attack less.
    However, those that are currently below average doesn't necessarily attack more.

    Another positive from this is that high legends are used to the "casual" situation the cloud creates.
    Press attack, and then proceed to do other real life stuff until a base is found.
    I'm guessing this is why some high Legend don't like the PVP idea..

    The limited attacks per day will create this "casual" situation. As you can relax after you've done all your attacks.

    The same number of attacks for every Legend will also create more competition and skill based Leaderboard.
    As each and every attack counts, top players will need to maintain high cups for each and every attacks; those that can 3 stars the most willl likely be in the top spots.
    I still think thos has problems, even reexplained. Too much is down to luck in what trophy offer you receive in your 5 to say the better attackers succeed. Also, PvP pushing is not actually casual, any B.B. push clan can tell you this as they attack well beyond the number per day to get the daily loot - so the 5 limit looks arbitarry to those at heart pushers. And 5 still would t actually reduce clods by an acceptable margin: it would still be too cloudy.
    Chapter One #22V00CGY Level 16 International clan
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  5. #35
    Forum Veteran vlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomville View Post
    I still think thos has problems, even reexplained. Too much is down to luck in what trophy offer you receive in your 5 to say the better attackers succeed. Also, PvP pushing is not actually casual, any B.B. push clan can tell you this as they attack well beyond the number per day to get the daily loot - so the 5 limit looks arbitarry to those at heart pushers. And 5 still would t actually reduce clods by an acceptable margin: it would still be too cloudy.
    Yes, people will definitely push next to get the highest cups offer in those 5 limited attacks.

    And we are only talking about "Attacks", how about "Defenses"?
    Perhaps higher number of forced defenses?

    Oh, and you misunderstood me regarding PvP.
    I meant that PvP is not casual enough for current high Legend players, that's why they don't like the idea.
    Home Village Pushing = Casual
    Builder Base Pushing = Not Casual
    Last edited by vlix; March 23rd, 2018 at 11:29 AM.

  6. #36
    Forum All-Star PaluEF's Avatar
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    Hey Tyler,
    Very nice summary of the ideas, sorry I can’t give you rep at this moment , and maybe one more idea to consider (don’t remember seeing it and just got it from the answers to the existing ones) :

    If the consensus is that clouds mainly come from players in high leagues attacking more than they defend, hence creating an unbalance of available bases to be attacked, vs bases that attack;
    if the trophy pushing has some need to be limited somehow,

    How about using the PBT as a mean to provide more defenses?
    To my knowledge the PBT lasts 15 minutes or one defense, which ever occurs first.
    In high leagues, after the 5 minutes cooldown, a base is usually attacked immediately.
    This provides one defense, for a standard player attacking about 5 to 10 times, depending on cloud thickness.

    The idea:
    PBT becomes a defined duration, during which the base can be attacked multiple times, and defend more times, offering more defenses per attack per village ratio.

    The system:
    When PBT starts, the usual 5 minutes apply.
    During an ongoing defense, the base cannot be attacked, at end of attack the base resets (same defense/cc) for next defense.
    When PBT ends the resolution of defenses occur.

    PBT and resolution ‘ratio’:
    At Titan, less def/att ratio are needed: 4500-5000 - PBT = 12 minutes (2x 3’30” defenses) - Ratio 2
    Low legend, increase the ratio: 5000-5500 - PBT = 16 minutes (3x defs) - Ratio 3
    mid legend, increase more : 5500-6000 - PBT = 20 minutes (4x defs) - Ratio 4
    etc...

    Resolution:
    Since multiple defenses occur, the resolution becomes more difficult, and not immediate, that is where ‘Ratio’ comes in play; and 2 outcomes have to be considered:
    - attacker: receives the trophies and loot divided by the ratio,
    - defender: receives the sum of all ratio-ed trophy/loot attacks. this roughly equals an average.

    Outcome:
    The trophy gains are roughly reduced by the ratio in each league reducing the ‘pace’ of any push.
    The trophy losses in defense remain similar since the average is taken.
    Since each base provides more defenses, the imbalance shifts to more defense for same attack number...

    Options: dynamic ratio-ing depending on cloud situation, server usage in high leagues...

    Ps: since the ratio depends on the defending village, and typical attacker sit at higher trophies, the ratio would be indicated somewhere during the attack, or apply directly to the shown trophies.

    Opinion?

    Edit: Option2 - for ‘no clouds’: Add an attack counter for each player in Legend.
    Ratio = attack counter, PBT = (attack counter *3.5) + 5 minutes
    Attack counter resets after each PBT.

    In this option, the more one attacks, the more defenses can occur. Minimum PBT stay at ratio indicated.
    This would theoretically equal defenses for attacks across the playing field.
    This would bring a ‘pseudo PvP’ for the league, not for each player of course.

  7. #37
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    It seems most or all of the ideas mentioned will at best temporarily improve clouding a bit but will not be a solution. It looks like (and I'm not surprised) that Darian is right about his statement that a real solution will need a complete restructuring of the game. But perhaps adding a new game mode can help also. Perhaps creating a real Legend Tournament (or season) can be interesting.

    Let's assume all players in Legend are there to push (I know that's not the case, but let's assume this is the case), and let's assume that we all want to see a ranking based on best-attacking-skills rather than on most attacks. In this case I can imagine a Tournament over a period of 4 weeks where we all fight in several rounds like in a competition. You get your targets (or a schedule) assigned in advance for each round and you have several days to complete the attacks before moving into a next round. Ranking will be based on stars and % (both offense and defense), all get equal numbers of attacks.

    I didn't do the math on this but I can imagine this will work out... What do you think?


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  8. #38
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    I've thrown this idea out a few times and it did not make your list, so I'll offer it up again. It is similar to PvP, however it keeps the main theme of the alternating attack/defense that is clash of clans.

    Forced Defenses.

    Once you hit legends league, the following applies:

    Force players to take defenses to maintain a 1:1 attack ratio per player. After an attack, you may not attack again until you take a defense. This process can be automated for players by adding a "defend now" button to the shield area. By clicking this button:
    -Shield will be dismissed
    -Guard will be dismissed
    -Village becomes "locked" such that heroes are awake/asleep, loot cannot be collected, troops donated, buildings moved, etc. The player can view their base, but it is locked while in the matchmaking pool.

    You can still view your base and chat, but that's about it. Much like when you've been on too long in Boom Beach, when your base becomes attacked, you auto-load the live defense screen and watch.

    After your defense, a normal shield/guard is granted to you as under the current system. You are also granted 1 attack.

    However, there needs to be a time limit. If your base is unshielded for 15 minutes and goes unattacked, you're given an attack back (though no shield).

    This system is guaranteed to eliminate clouds since all attacks and defenses are exactly 1:1 for every player.

    Won't this lead to pay to win?

    No.

    Here's how cups will work. I'll assume right now we're at season reset, so everyone is at 5000 cups. When attacking someone with the exact same number of cups as you, your offer is +30/-24. That's
    +10 cups for one star
    +20 cups for two star
    +30 cups for three star
    -24 cups for failing the attack.

    Assume you 2 star. You are now at 5020 cups and forced to take a defense. Someone else at 5020 cups find you and two stars you, you lose 20 cups. You're back at 5000.

    Rinse and repeat. Someone who 2 stars every attack and 2 starred on every defense will end the season at 5000 cups.

    So how do you climb? Very slowly by achieving more stars on offense than you do on defense. Someone who constantly attacks for 2 stars and defends for 1 star will be +20, -10, +20, -10, +20...etc.

    Isn't that the definition of skill? Outperforming your opponents? So not only will the system not be pay to win, it will be far more skill based.

    The only slight problem is poses is towards the end of the season, the high ranked players will rarely find +30/-24 offers. They may find +12/-30 offers, and two star for a total of +8, then be offered as a +33/-15 and get two starred for -22. Oh, the problems of having too many cups...(see also revenge below)

    The solution? Keep nexting until you get a better offer.

    Additional Pros:
    -Bring back the 7 day shield for legends players. Who would buy one when you have to dismiss it to get an attack in? That way players who actually need to take a break from the game for whatever life throws at them won't lose their position

    -Champs/Titans finding legends. This will not happen anymore. Because there are so many more bases in the matchmaking pool up top, the search parameters can be tweaked such that it does not search up as many cups as it currently does

    -Revenge. With people forced to dismiss their shields and sit in the match making pool, revenge will now be an option for legends.

    Cons:
    -Massive loot loss. By alternating attacks and defenses, you could lose a lot of loot on defense.
    Solution: Massive increase to win bonus

    -Hero regen times. You attack. Wait 1 hour for heroes to wake up. You defend with heroes. Wait 1 hour for heroes to wake up. That's 2 hours between attacks, instead of the current 1 hour.
    Solution: Legend league perk - half regeneration time for heroes

    So clouds are solved, loot maintained, alternating attack/defense theme in tact, a true skill based leader board...anybody have feedback or concerns on why it wouldn't work?
    Last edited by nelard; March 23rd, 2018 at 12:09 PM. Reason: Spacing edits

  9. #39
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    They've Got To Try Something

    I'm so frustrated that I'm at the point of just taking a shield for the last few days of a season, especially when there are clan games overlapping that period. Nothing is worse than not finding anything to attack for hours, then getting hit as soon as my shield is down and just hoping it's not some ridiculous score.

    If enough people did this: i) the game would simply gridlock at Legends with 0 bases available; ii) the problem would probably just shift 3 days earlier. Really I probably won't do this because having a slightly higher legends score is not worth the cost.

    My point is that SC has to try something because this is absurd. My favorites are:

    - Add bot accounts to attack after an hour (45 minutes?) offering say 6 trophies, not a great score but enough to hold your total trophy count if you attack 3 or 4 times during your shield. Solve the problem of dispersing Legends too much as super-keen players would progress well above others by simply changing the search for opponents to include all Legends players regardless of scores. Yes the super keeners would hate this because they'd give up more trophies, but they would still be at the upper end.

    - Open up Titan's players to Legends AND have bot accounts. As noted earlier most of the matches are TH11 on TH11 but that's fair. (And it wouldn't be too bad for new TH11's in Titan's because they wouldn't be giving up many trophies to high legends players.

    The key is that there simply has to be more accounts to attack or else the game is unplayable.

  10. #40
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    I like the Forced Defenses idea top to bottom.

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