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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Cloud Control - All About Clouds and Our Proposed Solutions

  1. #11
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    Recently made a comment on a thread called clouds....not sure how to repeat here, would love opinion....think top bases should be open for hits let's all just get in legends and duke it out!....sure most max base would go to legends if no cloud issues

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by OnyxDS View Post
    I don't think this avoids the fundamental problem that if there are plentiful targets then it's pay-to-win, and if not there are clouds. Now, you're right that issuing an extra target after someone has been in clouds for some time wouldn't be especially pay-to-win if "some time" was long enough - especially if more than the army cook time of 50 minutes or so. But a solution that reduces clouds to 30-60 minutes isn't exactly a solution to clouds. It might be that some balance offering a few extra bases could be a bit better than now, but it's only marginal. SC have made marginal changes before (like abolishing 1 cup offers), but they aren't solutions.

    I also think you maybe underestimate the sheer demand for targets in Legend league and how much carnage that could cause if unleashed on lower leagues. I did some API trawling last year and the average wins-per-day was around 2 for active players in all leagues below Legend, and IIRC around 4 in Legends. If you gave players in Legends an extra target after, say, 30 minutes clouding, I reckon they could be taking several extra targets each per day.

    I also did some league analysis from the API. This is some months out of date... but this was the breakdown of the leagues of random TH11s I could find:



    The Legends has probably gone up slightly since - so maybe call it 3% to make a nice round number.

    The number of low-league-TH11s per Legend-TH11 isn't all that enormous. If each Legend TH11 was offered, say, 5 extra targets a day (which could still be multi-hour clouding if people search much of the day), that would require hitting every single Silver and Gold TH11, and some of the Crystal ones.

    If the number of Legend-TH11s goes up much, or they take more than 5 targets a day, this could quickly consume every single TH11 target in low leagues, leading to substantial clouding - and that's still assuming quite a long delay before a low target is offered, and therefore quite a bit of clouding.

    So, conceptually, offering extra targets to clouders only after a fair bit of clouding can largely avoid pay-to-win, but at the cost of not really solving clouds. And if doing it by means of hitting low-league TH11s there might not actually be enough low-league TH11s around. To do this approach of offering only limited extra targets it might be safer to make them ghost bases (which could also duplicate Legend layouts and therefore be a more meaningful target - there's some REALLY dopey bases down in Silver!)

    PS - I also have another partial objection to any create-more-targets solution. Whether pay-to-win or not, if SC create extra targets it doesn't get away from the fact that the winner is currently who attacks most, rather than who attacks best. Whether most attacks is achieved by cloud time or gemming, neither is ideal. Solutions that force players to defend once per attack, fundamentally shift the focus onto the trophies gained per attack, rather than the number of attacks, and therefore onto the skill of the attacks.
    If you gave me an extra target every 30 minutes I would attack 10-14 times per day, instead of the few I get now. If I really wanted to push for a season and spend money on boosting, you could double that. That is why I think if any sort of “bot base” or “attack a low league th11” type thing was added, it would be better to come after an hour in the clouds. At least then it wouldn’t be pay to win with boosted attacks. Add in a 16 hour per day (or 14 or whatever) search limit and that might be an improvement over what we have now, for legends. It would not be so good for the th11 sitting low getting hit by a legend. As you said, it isn’t a solution to the clouds. It would only be an improvement and I don’t think it would even be universally considered an improvement.

    In the end, most of the “solutions” have problems. It is why the other day I posted in an “easy fix for clouds” thread that if anyone is thinking of starting a thread with that title, just use the search to find the idea has already been discussed. I would be happy with some small improvements at this point. I keep thinking if I continue to post that we need a 16 hour per day search limit and no titans attacking legends that SC will add it. I don’t know why I think that will happen given I keep asking for a trophy multiplier in clan games and that sure hasn’t happened yet. Maybe I just like asking for stuff.
    Contact SC here. Click here to see how trophies are calculated. I'm still thinking starting the "new" legends at Legends2 at 5500 and having Legends3 be for 5000-5499 would be good (with season resets to 5000 and 5500 depending on your trophies at season end) but overall I LOVE the Legends change. Thanks SC.

  3. #13
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    My favourite idea is the PvP system, it would greatly reduce clouding. As for loot issues, just increase the legend loot bonus to where you still get a good payout if you beat your opponent. I’d also like to see new leagues above legend, similar to the Clash Royale system.
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  4. #14
    Forum Contender Martvol's Avatar
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    Maybe the real solution is to not even worry about the clouds. Leave them. But, use the PvP idea as an in game tournament style of play. Gather 100 "like weighted" bases and let them battle it out for supremacy.

    Maybe what we really need is a new game mode that we use our existing troops in. Like we had been asking for long before that travesty called Builder Base was thrust upon us.
    Quote Originally Posted by WastingGems View Post
    SC missed the boat with this update.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darian[Supercell] View Post
    It was never the dev team's intention to leave the Town Hall side of the base behind.
    Although they did leave it behind.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roynice152 View Post
    Great in-depth analysis you did. How about if the realm of searches was expanded from Legend to Titan to Champion. Is it fair for a Champion to get attacked by a Legend? Not really, but TH11s find TH11s and rarely do they find a TH10. With the loot penalty, most don't attack a TH10. But a maxed TH11 doesn't need the loot do they? I don't anyone who has all their walls maxed out. Alot of TH11s go down to Gold, Masters, Crystal to hide from the higher TH11s. This will also penalize the players who have rushed their bases or engineered them to be hit by the more powerful TH11s.

    When TH12 comes out, how many who aren't maxed will be going to TH12 for all the new stuff? Probably more than you think.

    So my proposal is to expand the search of the Leagues.
    I don't really understand what loot has to do with any of this, but I did address expanding the search parameters to lower leagues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiler View Post
    Widen the search parameters for Legend League players

    The idea:
    Legend league players don't have enough bases to hit, right? So expand the search down in trophies every so often until a base is found, even if that's low Titan, Champion, or wherever there's a base available.

    The discussion:
    The biggest problem with this idea is that it doesn't actually fix any problems, it just pushes them somewhere else. And creates new ones. If you allow actively searching Legend league players to attack bases that are typically in range for Titan players to hit, you're taking targets away from Titan players. Now you've got Titans sitting in the clouds, and there are a lot more Titans. So now if we let Titans start hitting down, similar to Legends, we just push the cloud problem further down. And it isn't really alleviated up top, either. You've got an ever growing pool of players searching for a base, with an ever shrinking pool of bases to attack

    And that doesn't get into the new problem being introduced here. Even if it worked and everyone were able to attack more often, the game starts being pushed towards pay to win. It's not about how well you can attack, it's about how long you can spend online. It's about how much extra money you have to blow on gemming armies. At the top level, it's about how good you are at sharing your account. And I know that those are all problems already (Except gemming. When you're waiting 3 years to find a base, you don't need to wait for an army), but this would exacerbate them. That's no good.

    The verdict: It's just not going to work. There's too much wrong with this idea, and not nearly enough that's right with it. Back to the drawing board.
    Allowing people to attack more while not also forcing them to take a defense leads to a pay to win system. The leader board should be topped by people who are the best at attacking, not the people who attack the most. Being the most frequent attacker doesn't mean you're the best, it means you have the most time on your hands, and the most money to make good use of all your time
    Cloud Control - Why are clouds so terrible, and what are the possible ways to get rid of them?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by N1NJ4W4RR10R View Post
    Just curious, but what about a system that rewards those taking defenses with more trophies on the next attack?

    Got this idea from (WoW?), in that game every hour you are offline builds up a bonus of sorts. This is done to incentise people to not play 24/7. A similar ish system could work in clash, if more people want to take defences there'll (obviously) be more bases to attack. The best way (I can think of) to do this would be adding a "trophy bonus" for every attack taken (maybe getting smaller/bigger based on how many stars and a win/loss, at the start would be best to just have a standardised bonus for defences taken)
    I don't think I've heard about this. If you put something together that details this idea, I'd be more than happy to comb it over and see what I think and add it to the thread.

    My immediate concern is that it provides incentive not to play. Which is counter intuitive. But you would have to strike an absolutely perfect balance for this to be considered, because if you think about it, there are three ways this can go

    1) The incentive to log out and take a defense aren't worth having to take the defense. In this case, you'd see no change from what we already have

    2) The incentive to log out and take a defense is greater than the benefit gained from continued attacking. This is a problem as well. You don't want players to gain an advantage from not playing. That's just silly

    3) The incentive to log out and take a defense is exactly equal to the benefit of continued attacking. This is the only way this idea could work. It would essentially give a cushion that makes people comfortable with logging off, but continues to reward players that stay online.

    I can't even begin to guess where the balance would be. But as I said, I would be more than happy to look at something if you put it together!
    Cloud Control - Why are clouds so terrible, and what are the possible ways to get rid of them?

  7. #17
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    As Legends works now, whoever attacks the most, wins.

    It is not and never has been, especially since the introduction of Th11, about who attacks best. One can argue that prior to Th11, it may have been about who defended best.

    My point being that any argument against a solution to clouds that doesn't make it about who attacks best, is not an argument.

    Time is all that matters in Legends, who attacks most, not about who attacks best.
    Last edited by B1gb8dwo7f; March 23rd, 2018 at 03:44 AM.

  8. #18
    Forum Veteran vlix's Avatar
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    Hmm.. you forgot another solution: Limit the number of attacks a Legend players can do.
    For example: 10 attacks per day.

    What about Legends that want to farm loots?
    SC can increase the Legend League Bonus significantly..

    How about it? What are the Pros and Cons?

    And the solutions in the OP is not a standalone solution, they can be combined.
    For example: Widen Parameters for Legend can be combined with Bot Bases.
    And trophy offers for Bot bases can be minimized too, for example: only get max 3 cups on Bot bases, so hopefully it's not 30k cups by the end of the season..
    Last edited by vlix; March 23rd, 2018 at 04:25 AM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by B1gb8dwo7f View Post
    As Legends works now, whoever attacks the most, wins.

    It is not and never has been, especially since the introduction of Th11, about who attacks best. One can argue that prior to Th11, it may have been about who defended best.

    My point being that any argument against a solution to clouds that doesn't make it about who attacks best, is not an argument.

    Time is all that matters in Legends, who attacks most, not about who attacks best.
    True. But there are a couple of distinctions to be made

    1) I consider it a problem in those solutions because I consider it a problem now.

    2) A lot of these solutions make that problem significantly worse. Not only is it about time, but if you bring it to a level that paying grants you a stronger advantage, then it's pay to win. Right now, having extra money grants you literally no advantage.
    Cloud Control - Why are clouds so terrible, and what are the possible ways to get rid of them?

  10. #20
    Senior Member m5anto's Avatar
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    How about we gems to wins in legend league ? After 5000 trophies SC gives 1 gem for 1 star, 2 gems for 2 star and 3 gems for 3 star and 2,3,4 gems for 1,2,3 stars after 6000 along with the league bonus. It would certainly reduce the clouds overnight by a large factor as titans will try to get into legend league and everyone would love gems. What could be the cons? SC may lose little revenue in the beginning but more people pushing upwards would buy gems for shields, boosting, potions anyway. What's your opinion on my idea ?

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