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Thread: So what really is an engineered base ?

  1. #11
    Forum Superstar TankSinatra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheodoricOfYork View Post
    Is a base considered to be engineered for war matching purposes if ...
    Considered by whom? SC has certainly never put forth a definition, its really a forum term. And the definition's been subject to a lot of debate, but seems to coalesce around something like -

    Engineering is optimizing your account or roster based on your understanding of the matchmaker. It ranges from the simple .5 to the more extreme 9.11 or heavily lopsided versions.

    Mechanical definitions just don't work out, there are too many types of engineering. My points in bold below -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheodoricOfYork View Post

    - It is not maxed for the current TH level ?
    Not many accounts are maxed for the current TH level.
    - It does not at least contain all the defensive structures for the current TH level ?
    Lopsided .5 engineers prefer this definition, if they don't want to be considered engineers. But a white walled, 50/50/20 th11 without an eagle is engineering. On the other hand, my kids haven't built everything and they're definitely not engineering.
    - It does not contain all maxed defenses for the next lower TH level ?
    Same answer as the last one.
    - It does not at least contain all the defensive structures for the next lower TH level ?
    Same again.

    - Do hero level contribute in some way to a base being engineered or not ?
    Depends on the intention. Some think a low hero th11 (with otherwise heavy offense) is smart engineering, some prefer big heroes on their engineered accounts. Question is, what's the intent? Keeping heroes small on purpose because you think its a MM advantage is engineering. Putting all your effort into hero levels because you think its a MM advantage? Engineering too.
    Last edited by TankSinatra; March 13th, 2018 at 03:56 PM.
    It's always the closet engineers that are the most bitter. Trying to maintain a righteous pose while doing exactly what they claim to hate, lashing out at anyone that points out the obvious.

  2. #12
    Skrags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tosti111 View Post
    I may add to your description the following: If your defensive development is being intentionally being slowed and your offensive development is being maximized with the intent of creating a more advantageous war matchup AND/OR if you are intentionally managing your war roster to create a more advantageous war matchup, then that is engineering. It is a sliding scale however, the extreme versions are easy to spot the less extreme are more difficult to spot. You will note however, the word 'intentional', that is the most critical part in my opinion. As a reminder, we are allowed to play the game whichever way we choose as it does not technically violate any TOS.
    Kind of. I'm with you on the intent angle.
    The March 2016 update brought about the exponential increase in offensively engineered bases, or as SC term 'lopsided'.
    Lopsided however is just one branch of engineering, depending upon the relative value of offensive and defensive weights at any given time, and the perceived implications of the MM algorithm.

    The most successful engineered clan of all time has relatively balanced bases (in terms of weight), but they are extremely careful what they upgrade and what they don't.
    Also, hypothetically SC could turn war weight on its head tomorrow, and defensively strong bases could be more advantageous.


    In a nutshell, Engineering is about intent, and a moving perception of the weights and MM at any given time.
    Clan Name : SOUTH WEST 45, Clan Tag : #90LP2PL. Highest Win Streak 12!
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skrags View Post
    Kind of. I'm with you on the intent angle.
    The March 2016 update brought about the exponential increase in offensively engineered bases, or as SC term 'lopsided'.
    Lopsided however is just one branch of engineering, depending upon the relative value of offensive and defensive weights at any given time, and the perceived implications of the MM algorithm.

    The most successful engineered clan of all time has relatively balanced bases (in terms of weight), but they are extremely careful what they upgrade and what they don't.
    Also, hypothetically SC could turn war weight on its head tomorrow, and defensively strong bases could be more advantageous.


    In a nutshell, Engineering is about intent, and a moving perception of the weights and MM at any given time.
    I can buy into your definition as well.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Skrags View Post
    In a nutshell, Engineering is about intent, and a moving perception of the weights and MM at any given time.
    While I don't disagree with this idea, it would be hard enough for one individual to know what another's intent is by looking at his base, unless it was totally obvious ... It would of course be that much more difficult for an algorithm, regardless of how complex it is, to "know" it ...

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheodoricOfYork View Post
    While I don't disagree with this idea, it would be hard enough for one individual to know what another's intent is by looking at his base, unless it was totally obvious ... It would of course be that much more difficult for an algorithm, regardless of how complex it is, to "know" it ...
    Agree. But the intent will usually show, with what is and isn't built within the account.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheodoricOfYork View Post
    While I don't disagree with this idea, it would be hard enough for one individual to know what another's intent is by looking at his base, unless it was totally obvious ... It would of course be that much more difficult for an algorithm, regardless of how complex it is, to "know" it ...
    i agree makes more sense to define extent of engineering with extent of matchmaker optimisation, whatever the intent.
    Last edited by Vikingchief; March 13th, 2018 at 04:08 PM.
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheodoricOfYork View Post
    While I don't disagree with this idea, it would be hard enough for one individual to know what another's intent is by looking at his base, unless it was totally obvious ... It would of course be that much more difficult for an algorithm, regardless of how complex it is, to "know" it ...
    Very true. Plus 'intent' doesn't really draw a line between success and failure, and all the gaps inbetween.

    The 'Adapt or Quit' rhetoric historically voiced on these forums by engineers, is in itself an enigma, as in my opinion the vast vast majority of engineers have little to no clue about offensive weight for example, so if the war weight/MM goalposts were moved significantly by SC, then how would those engineers adapt effectively, when they never really understood where the starting line was in the first place!

    Don't get me wrong, there are some very clever engineers out there in Clashland, and I believe they could adapt, and their 'intent' would be continuous, ....

    Plus it's also about perception. I doubt our friends from the red planet would deem a single cannon defenceless base as engineered, more of a stain on the game!
    Clan Name : SOUTH WEST 45, Clan Tag : #90LP2PL. Highest Win Streak 12!
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  8. #18
    Centennial Club Curi's Avatar
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    High war troops, relatively high heroes but weak defense?! You got your engineered base there.
    My strongest 3* attack strategy is 120 wall breakers with 17 wall breakers in cc, and 5 jumps + 1 eq and another eq in cc.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vikingchief View Post
    You dont explain how matching your playstyle, which can be clanwide or base specific, or lane specific, and further could be done as a binary descriptor or a quantitative measure of degree, means that your base is getting a classification. There are many ways to match playstyles, and classifying bases is just one of them.
    As I edited my previous post, I should really stop calling it classification, sc use the term playstyle. Its not easy to explain cos its a mix of loads of things and the exact rules are not known.

    Most of the factors are easy to claim as true cos SC or Darian has stated it clear at some time and there's no room for misunderstandings, others we know exists but not the exact rules. Playstyle is one of those.

    We know they are matching by Playstyle as one factor, this was the big update to the mma in Augusti-17. There is really only one way they can do that and its by looking at every bases offensive, defensive and misc buildings. How they are measure it has been the really hard to figure out and I done loads of tests. Some explanations gets ruled out by other known facts, I have concluded that maxing out previous th and getting everything new at current th is the only way to be sure there is nothing that sc can react on. (is that the hole truth? Don't know but its working)

    But its an ongoing process cos sc change the mma frequently, sometimes new information gets out and I need to make sure it still fits with everything.

    If u got any other idea how they are matching by playstyle, I will be extremely interested to hear that. Maybe u have an idea that I haven't considered.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curi View Post
    High war troops, relatively high heroes but weak defense?! You got your engineered base there.
    You've got an example of an engineered base there, but there are engineered bases that do not confirm to that progression path!
    Clan Name : SOUTH WEST 45, Clan Tag : #90LP2PL. Highest Win Streak 12!
    Clan Details : Established 2012! Adult, English speaking International Level 12 War Clan (twice a week). Recruitment Thread : https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...H8-s-to-TH11-s My spec: mid TH11, 50/45/20

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