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Thread: Engineering getting cured

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    Since Darian highlighted engineering as an issue, it may be safe to presume, at least in the short term, that anti engineering solutions may be involved.
    I wouldn't count on that, because the fact is that the problem isn't engineering, as it's just a playing style and changing the rules in the middle of a game is very ugly. Let me repeat myself: engineering is not a problem, the problem is matching engineers with people that have another playing style.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickV View Post
    I wouldn't count on that, because the fact is that the problem isn't engineering, as it's just a playing style and changing the rules in the middle of a game is very ugly. Let me repeat myself: engineering is not a problem, the problem is matching engineers with people that have another playing style.
    These immaginary rules you speak of are already being changed. It is bound to get much much uglier. And it will bring a new form of entertainment to the game that many will enjoy.

  3. #23
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    Will rephrase. firstly, I have no problem with the play style referred to as engineering. I believe the war matching has changed recently. I also believe, from what I have seen in our last few wars, that they are still matching weights within the roster, bur there is a higher emphasis on hall matching.
    I will refrain from saying it is an anti engineering ploy, apologies for that, it was just my slant on it, and since I don't work for SC I was only filling in blank spaces/ guessing. I do think that the said changes are making for a better balance in war, due to them seemingly targeting the roster with a blanket of checks (or whatever they use), as not only off/ def weight is being measured, but also the colour of your hall.
    Seeing is believing, and this is what I see.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    I realise you read all the books, watched all the interviews, and researched any and all of the information that is out there. You are maybe the most enlightened person on the whole of forum, so far as what SC has put out there. I commend you for that.
    I agree to weights, as a matching tool, but maybe things are starting to move on.
    There are a few threads popping up now, that appear to suggest they are trying to do hall matching. If this is the case, then play styles wont be necessary, as offensive lop siders will naturally be at a disadvantage. Since Darian highlighted engineering as an issue, it may be safe to presume, at least in the short term, that anti engineering solutions may be involved. Next thing that needs analysing, is what is fact, and what is PR talk, as Darian is the "face" of SC, and is no doubt very good at his job.
    So, stick with the basics, that ring true.. eg, matching clan weights. But with the more obscure stuff, trust ones instinct, and what you see, when you spin for war. There are patterns beginning to emerge, and one of them just may be an attempt at hall matching.
    Thank u for those warm words, and yes I have studied the mma for 9 months now and identified 10 main factors and some with multiple parameters in them. To really understand the result u see as a lineup, u must know all factors and how they interact with each other.

    For the example of "TH matching" that ppl see it is caused by 2nd effects of mainly what I call "classification" factor. SC are getting better and better at matching playstyles. If u for example have 8 balanced accounts and 2 engineered u will face something similar. If u add that with the matching of weights it will have the indirect effect that u gonna have similar amounts of every th lvl. Then u got other factors messing it up sometimes like the algorithm gets looser with time or that the algorithm pay less attention the further down u go in the roaster. To complicate it further u got a few "switches" that sometimes prevent it all like "recent war performance" or "power balance" or the "TH check" (simply a check that doesn't match th by th but prevent a match from happen if the number of th differ too much) To top if off the algorithm don't need to have a hit on every factor and parameters, sometimes it thinks that 9 hits out of 10 are good enough. There are more included but u got the picture.

    It gets really complicated fast and when Darian describe the algorithm as "insane" I totally understand.

    Do I know it all? no
    Can I be wrong about something? yes
    Is everything based on facts? Almost everything, some are logic conclusions of things I know as facts

    And yes Darian is good at his work and u can see how careful he is sometimes with the words he use when answering a question.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickV View Post
    I wouldn't count on that, because the fact is that the problem isn't engineering, as it's just a playing style and changing the rules in the middle of a game is very ugly. Let me repeat myself: engineering is not a problem, the problem is matching engineers with people that have another playing style.
    The problem is not engineering, the problem arises from the advantage that engineering used to provide. Less so today.

    Supercell would never make changes to the rules in the middle of the game. I mean think about what would happen if you could lure heroes and then kill them, or if no poison existed for cc kill, or if your th got sniped you would get a shield and not lose resources, or if miners or bowlers had a different troop count, or skeletons triggered traps, or infernos negated healing.

    Thanks for the down rep, I thought SC could modify their game as they see fit. Thanks for setting me straight.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickV View Post
    I wouldn't count on that, because the fact is that the problem isn't engineering, as it's just a playing style and changing the rules in the middle of a game is very ugly. Let me repeat myself: engineering is not a problem, the problem is matching engineers with people that have another playing style.
    Agree, engineering isn't nerfed but actions has been taken to prevent mismatches from occurring. They are constantly changing the rules. That is not a problem but not letting us know exactly what the rules are, is a problem.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickV View Post
    I wouldn't count on that, because the fact is that the problem isn't engineering, as it's just a playing style and changing the rules in the middle of a game is very ugly. Let me repeat myself: engineering is not a problem, the problem is matching engineers with people that have another playing style.
    Quote Originally Posted by clashaddict9 View Post
    Thank u for those warm words, and yes I have studied the mma for 9 months now and identified 10 main factors and some with multiple parameters in them. To really understand the result u see as a lineup, u must know all factors and how they interact with each other.

    For the example of "TH matching" that ppl see it is caused by 2nd effects of mainly what I call "classification" factor. SC are getting better and better at matching playstyles. If u for example have 8 balanced accounts and 2 engineered u will face something similar. If u add that with the matching of weights it will have the indirect effect that u gonna have similar amounts of every th lvl. Then u got other factors messing it up sometimes like the algorithm gets looser with time or that the algorithm pay less attention the further down u go in the roaster. To complicate it further u got a few "switches" that sometimes prevent it all like "recent war performance" or "power balance" or the "TH check" (simply a check that doesn't match th by th but prevent a match from happen if the number of th differ too much) To top if off the algorithm don't need to have a hit on every factor and parameters, sometimes it thinks that 9 hits out of 10 are good enough. There are more included but u got the picture.

    It gets really complicated fast and when Darian describe the algorithm as "insane" I totally understand.

    Do I know it all? no
    Can I be wrong about something? yes
    Is everything based on facts? Almost everything, some are logic conclusions of things I know as facts

    And yes Darian is good at his work and u can see how careful he is sometimes with the words he use when answering a question.
    What is your clans normal roster break down if you don't mine me asking?

    Our current roster and war (just based on town halls some have 0 engineering though they are out of order) goes like this:

    Us:Them

    11:11
    11:11
    11:11
    11:11
    10:11
    11:10
    11:10
    11:10
    10:11
    10:11
    09:09
    09:09
    09:09
    09:09
    11:09
    11:09
    09:09
    10:08
    09:11
    10:11

    If we re-order that rosters are very similar and it looks like this.

    11:11
    11:11
    11:11
    11:11
    11:11
    11:11
    11:11
    11:11
    11:11
    10:10
    10:10
    10:10
    10:09
    10:09
    09:09
    09:09
    09:09
    09:09
    09:09
    09:08

    And, as the reorder looks, this match seems to be even. Town halls (specifically 11's) seem to be matched well. We have a win streak of 10 they are on a win streak of 4. There are a few lanes that are not matched, but we only have 6 wardens, they have 9 (though 3-4 are low level). Looks really close to hall matching to me. Same with our highly randomized engineered 40 vs 40 war in CWSF with 11's sprinkled all over the roster. The opposing clan was +1.

    With regard to OP, engineering is not getting cured! However the advantages are being greatly reduced by SC. Offense power valuation seems to be fairly acceptably accurate. With their new matching criteria, wars have been much more even. With the new offense power and hall matching, your "play styles" should still match. But with less priority on defenses, the clan with the defense number closest to it's offense number probably has the advantage. If both clans had a very small difference in power then you would be looking at 2 CWL style clans matching and there would be no advantage to be had.
    Last edited by SuperStorm103; March 12th, 2018 at 11:30 PM.
    DeathStorm-10|22/23|2148*|FireStorm-10|17/20|2178*|SuperStorm-9|13/15|2147*
    DragonStorm-9|8/8|1529*|PerfectStorm-9|8/10|1428*|BrainStorm-10|10/16|1452*

  8. #28
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    we usually run something around 0/7/9/4

  9. #29
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    Yeah. As I said. The thing that strikes me recently, is the colour of the halls. By whatever means they do it. It could be a secondary result, caused by something else. Maybe they started to buy TH paint in bulk. All I know is that is much improved recently.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by clashaddict9 View Post
    Agree, engineering isn't nerfed but actions has been taken to prevent mismatches from occurring. They are constantly changing the rules. That is not a problem but not letting us know exactly what the rules are, is a problem.
    If by “rules” here you mean fine detail on exactly how matchmaking works to pair clans, then they’re never going to tell us that as they see (and have said), quite rightly, that more knowledge out there opens the door for more matchmaker weakness exploitation.
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