Engineering is solved – I can prove

[WookieFloyd]

I dont think you know this, but forums make up only a miniscule amount of total players. Every MM post on bad MM by no means makes up all the bad matches. In fact, im willing to bet they only make 1/1000 representations of bad matches out there. SC does not and will not have statistics if "% bad matches" has that is uncatchable to the mm when it matches "a fair opponent". The only data SC can use, is seeing war mismatches and seeing what went wrong, and making some tweaks accordingly. For me it seems like you think that a 1% or even less total community on forums represents the whole matchmaking. Also, theres shouldn't be a % total mismatches in the first place, if everything was weighted appropriately to perfection (which is very hard) and very specific parameters added to single out engineers and give weight accordingly. There would be little to no mismatches. What i would love to see, is SC add a minimum TH weight, make power potion way more easy to get so no matter a engi or rusher you will have max troops in war so you wouldnt be too drastically effected by your minimum weight.

I understand completely that this forum represents a very small fraction of the player base. I essentially eluded to it in my statement by saying that all the mismatch threads don't take into account the lack of fair match threads (because if fair match threads were made for every fair war there would certainly be a lot of those threads on the forum, but currently there isn't). But it does go both ways, in no way is the forum a complete representation of all the mismatches either. If i thought the forums were a true representation of the MMer then the only conclusion you could draw is that the MMer is horribly broken because that is essentially all that is ever said in this subforum. I do not think the MMer is broken, I think it works quite well.

SC certainly could pull a 1000 or 10,000 wars out of the pile and analyze them all and extrapolate those %s across the entire war numbers. So SC certainly, imo, could ball park the relative number of bad matches compared to good matches.

To say that it is possible to never have a mismatch seems pretty far fetched to me with the way base progression currently works and the amount of variability in it, as well as the amount of variability in a clan war roster itself as well. It doesn't really matter if everything is weighted properly if there is no one searching that is the same weight as your clan. In the end barring a instant perfect match to your clan eventually the MMer has to expand parameters or just sit idle until a perfect match presents itself (no telling how long this may take, could be minutes, could be days). Also if everything was weighted properly per your scenario why would there need to be specific parameters to single out engineers and add weight accordingly? The only way I see to have no mismatches would be to have defined war rosters or just give everyone a max base in war or force people to drop buildings to be in war or something along those lines.

[2222]

Nope, not a long way to go at all. The mm is almost as perfect it can reasonably be right now. You may think it has a long way to go because you continue to push the MM to put a minimum weight equal to the previous TH...which is a non starter as far as SC is concerned.

I always refer to myself as having given up on the pursuit of a great matchmaker and instead would be happy with some rather blunt engineering nerfs like the minimum weight since the even better options don't seem relalistic. It seems you have given up even more than me if you think this is as good as it can get.

[WhyDoIEvenPlayThisGame]

I understand completely that this forum represents a very small fraction of the player base. I essentially eluded to it in my statement by saying that all the mismatch threads don't take into account the lack of fair match threads (because if fair match threads were made for every fair war there would certainly be a lot of those threads on the forum, but currently there isn't). But it does go both ways, in no way is the forum a complete representation of all the mismatches either. If i thought the forums were a true representation of the MMer then the only conclusion you could draw is that the MMer is horribly broken because that is essentially all that is ever said in this subforum. I do not think the MMer is broken, I think it works quite well.

SC certainly could pull a 1000 or 10,000 wars out of the pile and analyze them all and extrapolate those %s across the entire war numbers. So SC certainly, imo, could ball park the relative number of bad matches compared to good matches.

To say that it is possible to never have a mismatch seems pretty far fetched to me with the way base progression currently works and the amount of variability in it, as well as the amount of variability in a clan war roster itself as well. It doesn't really matter if everything is weighted properly if there is no one searching that is the same weight as your clan. In the end barring a instant perfect match to your clan eventually the MMer has to expand parameters or just sit idle until a perfect match presents itself (no telling how long this may take, could be minutes, could be days). Also if everything was weighted properly per your scenario why would there need to be specific parameters to single out engineers and add weight accordingly? The only way I see to have no mismatches would be to have defined war rosters or just give everyone a max base in war or force people to drop buildings to be in war or something along those lines.

A big reason there arent even more bad mm threads is because people have given up trying to convince SC to no avail after several years. Fair wars are only now recently arising, so with that you should expect new posts to appear. Many just dont see the point voicing themselves if they know their not gonna be heard and are just speaking to the air. And if you think MM is absolutely fair to its most extent right now, you are mistaken. We are far from where we want to be.

[ZenSpa]

I always refer to myself as having given up on the pursuit of a great matchmaker and instead would be happy with some rather blunt engineering nerfs like the minimum weight since the even better options don't seem relalistic. It seems you have given up even more than me if you think this is as good as it can get.

Me giving up on the MM? I never even tried to change the MM in the first place. I take the MM at face value, try to understand what is involved in the MM, and build my base and clan in a way to maximize my chance of winning. That is the goal of clan wars -- to win -- and that is all what matters to me.

This is the same approach I use in real life. For instance, are the tax rules always fair? No. Do I bother with trying to change the tax rules? No. But I do want to make damn sure to pay the least tax as possible, all within the tax rules (Trump thinking). I will certainly not trying to be a weakling like Mitch Romney who did not take some tax deductions in order to pay more taxes so he can look like he is paying his fair share of tax.

[ZenSpa]

A big reason there arent even more bad mm threads is because people have given up trying to convince SC to no avail after several years. Fair wars are only now recently arising, so with that you should expect new posts to appear. Many just dont see the point voicing themselves if they know their not gonna be heard and are just speaking to the air. And if you think MM is absolutely fair to its most extent right now, you are mistaken. We are far from where we want to be.

You are trying to make your opinion and beliefs like they are fact...
There was, there are, and there will always be complaint threads, regardless of how perfect is the MM, and that is a fact.

[WookieFloyd]

A big reason there arent even more bad mm threads is because people have given up trying to convince SC to no avail after several years. Fair wars are only now recently arising, so with that you should expect new posts to appear. Many just dont see the point voicing themselves if they know their not gonna be heard and are just speaking to the air. And if you think MM is absolutely fair to its most extent right now, you are mistaken. We are far from where we want to be.

You are trying to make your opinion and beliefs like they are fact...
There was, there are, and there will always be complaint threads, regardless of how perfect is the MM, and that is a fact.

I agree with Zen. You are stating opinions as if they are facts. In fact as far as I can tell Darian's stickied mismatch thread grows everyday so people haven't given up. Fair wars are not only now just showing up. Please show me your supporting data that shows fair wars have only just started occurring. Also, I never said the MMer was perfect but it certainly isn't broken like many seem to think.

[2222]

Me giving up on the MM? I never even tried to change the MM in the first place. I take the MM at face value, try to understand what is involved in the MM, and build my base and clan in a way to maximize my chance of winning. That is the goal of clan wars -- to win -- and that is all what matters to me.

I do the same, but it is not all that matters to me. Because I really like this game and want to keep playing it, including war, the long term health of the game matters to me. In my opinion, an engineering nerf like a minimum war weight would be good for the game long term. SC obviously disagrees with me, because that is a simple thing that could have been done a long time ago. When SC first took away town hall sniping, I thought they were wrong, but in the end I see now they were right. So, maybe they are right about the matchmaker too. Maybe having faults in the matchmaker that allow players to get an advantage if they discover and use those faults is good for the game long term. I have to assume SC thinks that is the case based on their actions to date. I disagree, but SC has been correct and I have been wrong in the past.

[WookieFloyd]

I do the same, but it is not all that matters to me. Because I really like this game and want to keep playing it, including war, the long term health of the game matters to me. In my opinion, an engineering nerf like a minimum war weight would be good for the game long term. SC obviously disagrees with me, because that is a simple thing that could have been done a long time ago. When SC first took away town hall sniping, I thought they were wrong, but in the end I see now they were right. So, maybe they are right about the matchmaker too. Maybe having faults in the matchmaker that allow players to get an advantage if they discover and use those faults is good for the game long term. I have to assume SC thinks that is the case based on their actions to date. I disagree, but SC has been correct and I have been wrong in the past.

I very much like this post. Willing to at least be open to the idea that SC is going about this the right way, whether they actually are or not. In the end they have ALL the data while we only have some and they are going to do whats best to drive the bottom line and the only way we even have a game to play at all is if there is a profit being made.

I think engineering in a more minimal form is good for the game. Not sure where in the sand the minimal line should be drawn. But engineering drives base creation, base progression, and adds at least some revenue. How many people have created and progressed new bases because they want to try to combat the advantages engineering gave/gives. In the end I do agree if the advantages aren't kept in check and regulated then that is bad for the game, but a healthy competition to gain a slight advantage I do not see as game breaking.

[WhyDoIEvenPlayThisGame]

You are trying to make your opinion and beliefs like they are fact...
There was, there are, and there will always be complaint threads, regardless of how perfect is the MM, and that is a fact.

What opinions and beliefs did i say.... i think its a fact that many people especially maxers have quit, its a fact that many have given up due to SC inurgency to listen and/or do something about engineering. Both of which have strong correlation of decreasing the amount of forum members not posting or quitting simply due to a lack of urgency. Just the same vice versa, if every TH got a same weight, wouldnt it be safe to say we will have more complaint threads than usual? Isnt such a thing strongly correlated with one another? Not to mention, quite a few of the posts are made due to the fact that minimal to no engineers clan match a massively engineered 11 clan. Or maxed bases, match strong bases one TH higher than them. This as a result has made a greater percentage of maxers quit than a percent of engineers simply due to SC's inability or effort to solve a ongoing problem for years. So, wouldnt that mean that there are now a great bit of maxers less in forums since that point. Im just saying, maxers are typically the ones to post these threads because they simply dont deserve such a matchup. As SC stated engineers should match engineers, and maxers vs maxers, so im not surprised at the fact that maxers point out the fact that what is going on shouldn't happen. It will always be that way, after all im sure some psychological study out there will say we are more likely to complain if something goes wrong rather than rejoice and tell everyone when something goes right. Because if something is right for a person, what does that accomplish in terms of impacting future updates for everyone? On mismatches, they can be used to influence (both visually and voicing our opinions) future updates as theres always gonna be something that needs some fixing. After all its much easier nitpicking very quickly some things that went wrong and what can be done to fix it from happening again when it shouldnt have in the first place, rather than using large amounts of data to prove something is right and working like it should. You just shouldn't be surprised by the amount of "negative mm" posts. After all, we want to fix things, theres a reason we have more incentive to create such a post as it could help SC find out what they need to change. Its just shouldn't be surprising, its human nature, theres less out there happy and spreading it to people than those who are complaining. Im sure we would love it the other way around if everything was fine, but for most its not the case. Also, supercell uses the forums for ideas, suggestions and helpful info for future updates, as far as i know, a "mm is perfect" thread doesnt have much to do with future tweaks they will make to it anyways. I can see why these posts arent so common, it just doesn't come around to me as a shocker. I just know what to expect here, and i cant change it.

[WhyDoIEvenPlayThisGame]

I agree with Zen. You are stating opinions as if they are facts. In fact as far as I can tell Darian's stickied mismatch thread grows everyday so people haven't given up. Fair wars are not only now just showing up. Please show me your supporting data that shows fair wars have only just started occurring. Also, I never said the MMer was perfect but it certainly isn't broken like many seem to think.

fair wars havent started just now, but now they are FAR more frequent. There have been good posts before these updates but they were exceedingly rare, with the rise of more amounts of fair wars i would expect more threads of that nature to occur. Its more common sense than anything. But negative mm threads will always be here, theses always something that needs ti be fixing, especially in the terms of maxers getting stomped on by clans they shouldnt match.