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Thread: Definition of a 0.5 base

  1. #31
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    Forgive the cynicism, but I take it that its about gaining advantage whilst maintaining a moral high ground, in these days of anti engineering ( which I dont have a problem with). Seek absolution within the community. In my opinion, a .5 cant, by definition, contain any defense not available to the previous level, but have the hitting power of the new level.. eg a 9.5 only has defense available to th9, but can generate an army, at a high/max level available to th10, including camps,spells, and of course lab. I also feel that most, unless they have a rigid upgrade model within the clan, tend to be premmies, as the whole idea is minimum weight/ maximum force, for advantage, and the hero/ wall grind takes so much discipline to maintain. So 9 (defense) .5 (th10 attack) or .11 (th11 attack). Not sure its changed that much.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomville View Post
    The 9.11 is called that because it is missing the eagle and inferno, ie missing the bits that would have you call it a “true” 10 or 11. So 9.11 is used to signal that it has th11 offence with the full set of th9 defences in place (plus however many extra upgrades or new defence items it has, provided those specifically exclude inferno and eagle).
    So a, say, L15 AT would be a "TH9 defense" as that is available at TH9, even though it's maxed for TH11. Is that correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skrags View Post
    Disclaimer :- The history of X.5 (and in particular 9.5) goes back well before the videos I have linked below.

    Again, Jake goes through the potential benefits of TH9.5, no new defences added, but focus on offence to "build their offence up, to a point where they can take out TH10's, before they start building those TH10 defences"

    Note : At this point, lots (but not all) players believed that your Gold Storages was your war weight, which subsequently was shown to be false. Lots of Youtubers incorrectly published similar weight messages, but hey, I digress...

    To summarise these videos :-

    The whole point of 9.5, was to upgrade your TH10 Offence so that you were "capable" of 3 starring opponents TH10's. To do this you needed Max TH9 plus Heroes.
    TH9.5 was never a upgrade path with the focus on dipping, or 3 star TH9's. This is a common misconception

    ...The original concept or goal of a TH9.5 was taking out TH10's or other 9.5s, not dipping, or 2 starring mid TH10's with 20/20 Heroes.

    Sorry, that doesn't make much sense to me.

    I don't know if I could still find the websites who advocated the .5 strategy to, in fact, dip, but I can assure you I read them (i.e. there was no misconception) and we've directly witnessed many clans who executed this strategy, accidental or not, to dip.

    Most players are terrible and need to dip to 3*, especially when attacking ~max TH9 bases and often TH8 bases. And whether they admit it or not, the reality of the situation is that, when at war, you do what you need to do to win and that usually includes dipping, especially when you can't attack well.

    Above, I don't even understand, "The whole point of 9.5, was to upgrade your TH10 Offence so that you were "capable" of 3 starring opponents TH10's."

    Huh?

    Not only is 3* a TH10, pre IT nerf, just a massively rare thing, I simply ask, "vs. what alternative?" To not build your offense to 3* your respective TH?

    Why would someone say, "hey, let's name it .5 strategy to describe the situation whereby you want to build your TH10 offense to 3* other TH10s?"

    That's hardly some headline strategy, as that's what substantially all players do nowadays---build their offense to 3* other bases. But since most players aren't good, they need to dip to 3*. It's been that way for quite sometime

    It also seems like it's simply six of one, 1/2 a dozen of the other. Even if someone argued it wasn't to dip and was to 3* a similar TH, it still doesn't seem to dismiss the fact that you leave your defenses behind, while upgrading your offense, in order to gain a favorable war match.

    Quote Originally Posted by StormHeart View Post
    I've only read the first few answers and oh boy are they wrong.

    I'm sure someone has answered it by now but...

    A .5 is a base that has added NO new defenses at that TH level. Pretty simple.

    You can upgrade all old defenses but not add any new ones.

    You can add storages and other non-defenses bases but a fourth AD at TH9 is definitely not a .5 base.

    Is that engineered? To me, engineering is taking the .5 concept to a new level. I don't call those bases engineered myself but I can see where others might. I do disagree but I don't do it any more because you'll see more engineers if you do. At least that was our clan's experience. I used to be a big fan of .5s.

    The idea behind it is you can only lose three stars but you can gain six. Pretty much the idea behind engineering. I just don't do it any more. The purpose is to gain an advantage and it works but with engineers in the mix you'll probably see more of them. And, they are likely to have a much bigger advantage.
    Oh really?

    And pursuant to either the old MMs or, heck, even the current MM, what edge do you think that would give you? You are a, say, TH9 and upgrade all existing defenses to max TH9 levels, then go to war. Is that supposed to give you some favorable match or something?
    Last edited by Dayewalker; January 12th, 2018 at 01:14 AM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayewalker View Post
    So a, say, L15 AT would be a "TH9 defense" as that is available at TH9, even though it's maxed for TH11. Is that correct?
    Yes.

    Once again, there is "gray" area on this.

    I call bases without infernos/eagle but th11 offense 9.11s even if they add the extra xbows, cannons, point defs, wiz towers, etc. These defenses can also exceed th9 levels - I just call these maxer 9.11s
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthmtn View Post
    Yes.

    Once again, there is "gray" area on this.

    I call bases without infernos/eagle but th11 offense 9.11s even if they add the extra xbows, cannons, point defs, wiz towers, etc. These defenses can also exceed th9 levels - I just call these maxer 9.11s

    Woohoo, I’m a maxer. Suck it all you people that thought I was an engineer.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthmtn View Post
    Yes.

    Once again, there is "gray" area on this.

    I call bases without infernos/eagle but th11 offense 9.11s even if they add the extra xbows, cannons, point defs, wiz towers, etc. These defenses can also exceed th9 levels - I just call these maxer 9.11s
    Maxer Engineers..now thats really sitting on the fence.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayewalker View Post
    So a, say, L15 AT would be a "TH9 defense" as that is available at TH9, even though it's maxed for TH11. Is that correct?




    Sorry, that doesn't make much sense to me.

    I don't know if I could still find the websites who advocated the .5 strategy to, in fact, dip, but I can assure you I read them (i.e. there was no misconception) and we've directly witnessed many clans who executed this strategy, accidental or not, to dip.

    Most players are terrible and need to dip to 3*, especially when attacking ~max TH9 bases and often TH8 bases. And whether they admit it or not, the reality of the situation is that, when at war, you do what you need to do to win and that usually includes dipping, especially when you can't attack well.

    Above, I don't even understand, "The whole point of 9.5, was to upgrade your TH10 Offence so that you were "capable" of 3 starring opponents TH10's."

    Huh?

    Not only is 3* a TH10, pre IT nerf, just a massively rare thing, I simply ask, "vs. what alternative?" To not build your offense to 3* your respective TH?

    Why would someone say, "hey, let's name it .5 strategy to describe the situation whereby you want to build your TH10 offense to 3* other TH10s?"

    That's hardly some headline strategy, as that's what substantially all players do nowadays---build their offense to 3* other bases. But since most players aren't good, they need to dip to 3*. It's been that way for quite sometime

    It also seems like it's simply six of one, 1/2 a dozen of the other. Even if someone argued it wasn't to dip and was to 3* a similar TH, it still doesn't seem to dismiss the fact that you leave your defenses behind, while upgrading your offense, in order to gain a favorable war match.



    Oh really?

    And pursuant to either the old MMs or, heck, even the current MM, what edge do you think that would give you? You are a, say, TH9 and upgrade all existing defenses to max TH9 levels, then go to war. Is that supposed to give you some favorable match or something?
    To pick up the part of the discussion of whom the first early 0.5s were for attacking: the people who coined the term were from the hardcore warring clans. They really did have in mind 3 starring someone with the same colour th as yours (or hitting up a level further still for a 2 star). For them that was a mark of pride - what one was supposed to be doing in their way of seeing war. It’s perhaps a little self serving in that they didn’t acknowledge the effect of the low defence was to pull your clan an easier opponent overall in general matchmaking (not necessarily seen in any one lane, never mind ones own lane, but nonetheless weaker than they would have been had your low defences not hidden your higher offence capacity).

    On the old matchmaker which matched more heavily on defence, if you added enough 0.5 and more heavily engineered bases, then most of the attack opportunities could be dips... Lo the rise of the level 6 drags only th11 defenceless base intended to double dip on th9s (as it isn’t actually strong enough to 3 star on a single dip on a 10). And cue the rise of a lot of mistaken “will I still pull a 9 if I build x on my th10?” questions from people who are overinvested in a mistaken idea of lane matching or in the desirability of in lane attacking.
    Last edited by Tomville; January 12th, 2018 at 03:21 AM.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krzeng9 View Post
    Wow thanks for all the info!

    Is your combined storage or either gold or elixir really not your war weight? Never knew that.
    Your most welcome.
    The term "War Weight" , just like X.5 , has also suffered from the pains of ambiguity over time.
    Your Gold storage/Available loot values reflect your approximate Defensive Weight Only.

    Back in the day however, many players/clans (not all) including prominent Youtubers/Elite War participants believed this figure reflected your total base weight/value, including offence.
    Of course there were players/clans that had already figured out this assumption was incorrect , but it wasn't until March 2016 when the mass player base (including myself) realised we had got it all wrong (1.10 onwards)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33o4C6SNess

    The ambiguity today comes from the simplified assumptions of the communicator versus past held beliefs.

    Some people use the term 'war weight' assuming that the reader realises that they are only referring to defensive weight, just because its easier to type than "the defensive weight of my base is" etc
    If I posted, "My base weighs 90k", I would assume that most readers would realise that I was only referring to defensive weight, but of course assumptions can easily lead to misunderstanding!


    Quote Originally Posted by Dayewalker View Post


    Sorry, that doesn't make much sense to me.

    I don't know if I could still find the websites who advocated the .5 strategy to, in fact, dip, but I can assure you I read them (i.e. there was no misconception) and we've directly witnessed many clans who executed this strategy, accidental or not, to dip.

    Most players are terrible and need to dip to 3*, especially when attacking ~max TH9 bases and often TH8 bases.
    Above, I don't even understand, "The whole point of 9.5, was to upgrade your TH10 Offence so that you were "capable" of 3 starring opponents TH10's."

    Huh?
    All fair points and observations Dayewalker. It's about context.
    As TankSinatra has pointed out to me before, the war scene 3 years ago is a completely different monster than it is today.

    Hulk (Reddit) and Jake's (OneHive) Youtube following escalated because of their high end TH9 content.
    If memory serves me right (at one time), OneHive wouldn't even look at an application to join their clan, unless you had minimum 20/20 Heroes.

    OneHive did have TH10's , but the mass of their roster was TH9's, for example :-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq_V...mx_9&index=128

    With so many big offence TH9's they really didn't need many dips. I'm not saying they didn't use dips when needed, but OneHive assumed that their volume TH9's would clear all their opponents TH9's.....

    In the last 3 years, a lot of things have changed as players have progressed upwards!
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  8. #38
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    One of the main reasons why people in my clan went the 8.5 ( th9 without X bow ), 9.5 ( th10 without inferno) 10.5 ( th 11 without eagle ) was beacuse we got sick an tired of matching clans that did use that strategy.

    I believe many see the .5 as no longer a good thing to get ‘fair’ matches.

    Many villages are now 9.11 (th9 defenses, but all at max th11 level and without inferno and xbow)

    we just matched a clan heavily using this strategy and i can tell you this gives them a massive advantage ( and puts us at a disadvantage )

    And with the NERF of the inferno’s .. ( while they still carry a lot of war weight ) ...this seems to be a VERY GOOD STRATEGY !

    Supercell PLEASE FIX this !,
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skrags View Post
    All fair points and observations Dayewalker. It's about context.
    As TankSinatra has pointed out to me before, the war scene 3 years ago is a completely different monster than it is today.
    Ah yes, the glory days when th9 triples were serious business unless a base was very bad (though there were a lot more very bad bases). Still remember my first max 9 anti-3 triple. Shattered laloon it was, with teen heroes....

    Players who would later become pure max league players, embraced 'strategic upgrading' at first as it helped them in random spins (which was all anybody was doing). That's Hulk, Jake, and here's another who would later change his tune - https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...=1#post4343559

    As they moved towards (informally) arranged wars and eventually leagues (FW wasn't implemented yet), by agreeing to canned rosters at a specific start time, matching by TH became the obvious choice and their engineering ended. I suspect it had much more to do with matching than any ethical concerns - even open modders were playing with max bases so they could arrange matches.
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  10. #40
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    OP, is it any clearer now? haha

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