Revenge Change and how it affects top players

[bruc3y]

What's funny is that Con Cung 1201 puts a complaint in his clan description, but he's number 1 one the world post update.

?!?!?!?

[Funguy]

This video represent the top leaders.

lol omg this is so funny I all most fell out of my chair lol.

[Kingryann]

i agree.... how's our main clan holding? (Quantum's Web)

Going good man, the line chat got a bit heated earlier but things are settling down again I think, how's united?

[Theriddler93]

This video represent the top leaders.

You deserv a cookie!

[sosa3]

I have not read this entire thread and only read the first 30 or so pages of the last one.. but a few things that were brought up that I would like to address as how I see it.

I apologize in advance, as I expect this to jump around a bit. I'm multitasking as I type, so my focus is not going to be fully delivered in my post.

Cheeting is a breach in the rules. Cheap shielding is not outlined in the rules therefore is not technically cheeting if you are reading the rules word-for-word.
Similar (similar, but not same) concept with farmers and town halls outside.

However, what differs in these two scenarios would be the availability.
Cheeting is defined as acting dishonestly to gain an unfair advantage.
Putting one's town hall outside is not being dishonest. You're able to place your buildings anywhere you want. It's not in a fixed position on your village map. Others are still able to find you in the search, and raid you for 100% regardless of where your TH is located.

Farmers put their town halls outside in hopes of someone attacking only their town hall. They hope for it, it's not guaranteed. When done properly, cheap shielding doesn't have any risk involved. Just execution between friends. Though there are many parallels, they are not comparable to the degree that some people have in their context.

Now, lets compare cheap shielding with something a little more direct which more players can relate to.

If you're playing a First Person Shooter game and you notice a player hiding in a concealed location, sniping people as they walk by. Is this cheeting? You likely answered no, but it is a tactic frowned upon by advanced players (which it is).

Now, in the same game you also notice someone is gaining kills repeatedly without a death to their record. You find out they have found a breach in the game to be able to allow yourself to be invisible while in the active fighting grounds - unseen by players, unseen by bullets.. indestructible. This is cheeting.

If you haven't caught on already, the first example is a farmer in CoC and cheap shielding the latter.

Are you STILL not convinced?

Alright.

Cheap shielding.. is it right to use? Yes? How about we make it available to all players then? I mean, it's only fair, right?
What would happen to the rankings? What would happen to the game? I'll let you paint your own painting.

And for what it's worth, it doesn't matter what trophy count you're at. It doesn't matter what style of play you have (trophy/farm). It doesn't matter how many dollars (or lack there of) you have spent on the game (you do not pay SuperCell's payroll, they purposely structured this game the way it is so they can give you a free game and entice you to spend money. The reason you spent thousands of dollars on this game is because of SC's superior marketing and they deserve the credit - not you). Everyone's voices and opinions are all weighed the same. I have the same rights and the same freedom as the next guy. Sure, experience will give you a general understanding of how someone is, but it is not the true definition of it (just like post count on a forum).

[nolahumidity]

Fun facts:

A "Top player", an elder in a "Top Clan", a "trophy leader", a top 20 highest trophy count worldwide player has the following achievements:

14 Inferno Towers destroyed. Fourteen. Seriously.

62 Xbows destroyed.

Winner of only 1545 multiplayer battles.

And routinely donates exactly 0 troops in 2 weeks, and receives 0 troops in 2 weeks.

Thats a "top 20" worldwide player.

14 inferno towers.

Are you kidding me? Anybody defending the ♥♥ shields has no leg to stand on when players who literally DO NOT PLAY THE GAME are able to get then keep a top 20 worldwide ranking.

What a joke. Good riddence any of these clowns who quit.

[STSCS]

As only a TH7 player (max'ing before upgrading) the higher end difficulties I had read about on these forums over the past several weeks was a concern, though not an immediate one.

I like playing CoC and dedicate what is probably an unwholesome amount of time to playing it, as well as plenty of time here and on the wiki learning more about it. My daughter hooked me into the game and I hooked my wife into it as well as some people I work with.

This recent change should be lauded by all legitimate players. I have played other games in the past where I ended up quitting the game because of others exploiting or spoiling the game via dishonorable tactics.

Good job CoC for making this change. As a result, it will keep me playing where otherwise I would have probably dropped out once I ran into those exploiting a game loophole.

Thank you!

R/
STSCS

[zachUVA]

I have not read this entire thread and only read the first 30 or so pages of the last one.. but a few things that were brought up that I would like to address as how I see it.

I apologize in advance, as I expect this to jump around a bit. I'm multitasking as I type, so my focus is not going to be fully delivered in my post.

Cheeting is a breach in the rules. Cheap shielding is not outlined in the rules therefore is not technically cheeting if you are reading the rules word-for-word.
Similar (similar, but not same) concept with farmers and town halls outside.

This is actually not true.

This is a quote directly from SC's terms of service:

You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:

• Engage in any act that Supercell deems to be in conflict with the spirit or intent of the Service or make improper use of Supercell’s support services.

After the revenge tweak in this past update, a SC staff member (Steve) made a comment in another one of these threads saying that SC saw such practices as being unfair and against the spirit of competition that they are trying to promote. Yes, this may be more abstract than say "h@cking is against the rules", but yes, going by the letter of the law, cheap shield are tecnically cheeating, at least now.

However, what differs in these two scenarios would be the availability.
Cheeting is defined as acting dishonestly to gain an unfair advantage.
Putting one's town hall outside is not being dishonest. You're able to place your buildings anywhere you want. It's not in a fixed position on your village map. Others are still able to find you in the search, and raid you for 100% regardless of where your TH is located.

Farmers put their town halls outside in hopes of someone attacking only their town hall. They hope for it, it's not guaranteed. When done properly, cheap shielding doesn't have any risk involved. Just execution between friends. Though there are many parallels, they are not comparable to the degree that some people have in their context.

This seems like a reasonable assessment of the situation.

Now, lets compare cheap shielding with something a little more direct which more players can relate to.

If you're playing a First Person Shooter game and you notice a player hiding in a concealed location, sniping people as they walk by. Is this cheeting? You likely answered no, but it is a tactic frowned upon by advanced players (which it is).

Now, in the same game you also notice someone is gaining kills repeatedly without a death to their record. You find out they have found a breach in the game to be able to allow yourself to be invisible while in the active fighting grounds - unseen by players, unseen by bullets.. indestructible. This is cheeting.

If you haven't caught on already, the first example is a farmer in CoC and cheap shielding the latter.

Are you STILL not convinced?

Alright.

Not all cheap shielders fit that example though. There are many of them who are simply colluding with their friends to give them shields, which is still unfair and against the spirit of the game, but it is certainly not comparable to h@cks or anything blatantly malicious. Really, I think some cheap shields can be compared to farmers, especially if you define farming as raiding resources off of those significantly weaker than you. They are both unfair and hurt other players who have no way to stop it. Not saying that farmers are as bad as cheap shielders, but I'm not saying they aren't either.

The main difference between the two is that SC has taken the public stance that cheap shielding is unfair and isn't how the game should be played, but two weeks ago this would have actually been a legitimate comparison in my eyes.

Cheap shielding.. is it right to use? Yes? How about we make it available to all players then? I mean, it's only fair, right?
What would happen to the rankings? What would happen to the game? I'll let you paint your own painting.

Cheap shielding is not a fair practice, and I think even top players would have a tough time coming up with a good response to that, but in a way is was done out of unmitigated competitivenss amongst the top players. Someone made a great analogy between top players and businesses. Both will do anything reasonable within their power to stifle the competition, and in both cases it is up to the regulatory bodies (SC in this case) to design rules and regulations to stop things that cross the line. This is what SC has just done, and I applaud it.

And for what it's worth, it doesn't matter what trophy count you're at. It doesn't matter what style of play you have (trophy/farm). It doesn't matter how many dollars (or lack there of) you have spent on the game (you do not pay SuperCell's payroll, they purposely structured this game the way it is so they can give you a free game and entice you to spend money. The reason you spent thousands of dollars on this game is because of SC's superior marketing and they deserve the credit - not you). Everyone's voices and opinions are all weighed the same. I have the same rights and the same freedom as the next guy. Sure, experience will give you a general understanding of how someone is, but it is not the true definition of it (just like post count on a forum).

Hey now, I take that last line as a personal attack on me!!! Kidding, of course. You're exactly right about this. No one's opinon on the game is inherently any better than anyone elses, but in cases like these there are some opinions that should indeed carry more weight than others. Specifically, well-informed logical responses with reasonable arguments are more likely to be taken seriously both by posters and by SC. Both sides of this debate are often seen resorting to pot shots, name calling, and general bickering, and that's the kind of stuff that should just be ignored. There are points to be made, but they have to be made in the right way.

[FishiesAreEpic]

Apparently all of the top players are complaining about this "new revenge system". Why? What is so bad about it??

[winnimon]

They can't cheap cheap shield each other and stay up on top of the leader boards so they are mad.