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Thread: THE FOUR TOWERS - anti 3 star war base

  1. #11
    Senior Member CHANDRIANO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icanstaytrydon View Post
    You are using th10 didn't you take th10 defense in this
    This layout is for TH9. I used a TH10 because I was a TH9.5 at the time the screen shot was taken, but as you can see in the picture, all defenses and walls are of TH9. There aren't new walls, traps or any th10 feature. It was designed and used when I was a true TH9.
    Last edited by CHANDRIANO; November 23rd, 2017 at 03:49 AM.

  2. #12
    10,000,001 Bmille3's Avatar
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    Impressive. I like it.
    add me on Epic @Bossmille3

  3. #13
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    wow great base! will share with my clanmates. Thanks!
    COC: Co-leader of a lvl 12 clan:PLANET HULK! TH9, playing since 2014, Lvl 138 Maxer! MV PB: 3270
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  4. #14
    Millennial Club GodII's Avatar
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    It seems pretty good but the big compartments are fundamentally weak and this base could never survive in the top level war clans.

    Before we get into particular attacks, two mortars are free trades for minions/loons and the distance from the trash ring means the funnel is completely free.

    Entering rightmost compartment can still grab queen and has absurd value for a kill squad. I could queen walk it or 2 golem kill squad it and get an xbow, archer tower, 4 wiz towers, teslas, etc. This could be remedied a bit by moving the AQ a bit more towards the bottom compartment. Afterwards I could kind of do whatever to the rest of the base.

    Too few compartments means a kill squad from close to anywhere around the base will get all the way through the core. At that point the base has been hollowed out so that hogs could finish it off.

    The few compartments means a decent GoWi-- should take the base. Yes the point defense will poke the core troops but overall the cover fire is limited. It should push through the base and even if it pops out the other side it will be strong enough to loop around while whatever cleanup troops brought can pick off the leftover towers.
    Recently returned from a ~2 year retirement. I may be an old dog, but I still got some tricks up my sleeve.

  5. #15
    Senior Member CHANDRIANO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodII View Post
    It seems pretty good but the big compartments are fundamentally weak and this base could never survive in the top level war clans.

    Before we get into particular attacks, two mortars are free trades for minions/loons and the distance from the trash ring means the funnel is completely free.

    Entering rightmost compartment can still grab queen and has absurd value for a kill squad. I could queen walk it or 2 golem kill squad it and get an xbow, archer tower, 4 wiz towers, teslas, etc. This could be remedied a bit by moving the AQ a bit more towards the bottom compartment. Afterwards I could kind of do whatever to the rest of the base.

    Too few compartments means a kill squad from close to anywhere around the base will get all the way through the core. At that point the base has been hollowed out so that hogs could finish it off.

    The few compartments means a decent GoWi-- should take the base. Yes the point defense will poke the core troops but overall the cover fire is limited. It should push through the base and even if it pops out the other side it will be strong enough to loop around while whatever cleanup troops brought can pick off the leftover towers.
    Thanks for the analysis.
    Yes, the possibility of the queen been killed by an entry by the xbow compartment was described in the mechanics, but she will not always jump the wall (because she is 3+ tiles from that wall). Queen could change place with the near elixir deposit without messing with mechanics, but I really don't think it's worth to put her beside the AD (you can do it if you like. I did it myself for some time, then moved back to her original place).
    Most good hog attackers attacked this base the way you described,(kill squad by the xbox compartment), however, most of them lost their last hogs in the king compartment, after cleaning the second xbow.
    Yes, you coud take out one or two mortars with minions, but it would cost valuable time to clean the less important defenses that are there only to make cc harder to lure.
    Of course, a skilled attacker can take this base with valkyries and hogs. This base is only good, not perfect against ground attacks. It will defend well against popular ground attacks performed by players that are better than the average, but top players can beat it (I don't know a th9 base that cannot be beaten by hogs).
    On the other hand, this base will defend so well against queen pop laloon, quad laloon, etc performed by top players that I seriously recommend everyone to give a try.
    Last edited by CHANDRIANO; November 28th, 2017 at 04:09 AM.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHANDRIANO View Post
    Thanks for the analysis.
    Yes, the possibility of the queen been killed by an entry by the xbow compartment was described in the mechanics, but she will not always jump the wall (because she is 3+ tiles from that wall). Queen could change place with the near elixir deposit without messing with mechanics, but I really don't think it's worth to put her beside the AD (you can do it if you like. I did it myself for some time, then moved back to her original place).
    Most good hog attackers attacked this base the way you described,(kill squad by the xbox compartment), however, most of them lost their last hogs in the king compartment, after cleaning the second xbow.
    Yes, you coud take out one or two mortars with minions, but it would cost valuable time to clean the less important defenses that are there only to make cc harder to lure.
    Of course, a skilled attacker can take this base with valkyries and hogs. This base is only good, not perfect against ground attacks. It will defend well against popular ground attacks performed by players that are better than the average, but top players can beat it (I don't know a th9 base that cannot be beaten by hogs).
    On the other hand, this base will defend so well against queen pop laloon, quad laloon, etc performed by top players that I seriously recommend everyone to give a try.
    For the most part the queen doesn't need to jump the wall; the attacking queen will kill her. Also depending on the weight of the kill squad a jump can be used to get to the core anyway so jumping to the queen shouldn't be too bad.

    I guess I don't really see how good hog attackers are losing their hogs at kings compartment. It's a nice and open area away from splash to drop a skele spell if needed and otherwise heal over that spot (since there are 5 point defense there you likely need a heal anyway).

    The time to take out the mortars is relatively low so I don't think it's a worthwhile tradeoff. Due to the openness of the base, there should be pretty low time spent beating walls and whatnot so I don't think time outs should be too common.

    I won't argue that there exists some sort of unhogable or unbeatable base, but I think this one is certainly a bit easier for fairly experienced attackers because of some weaknesses pointed out. For the knowledgeable base designers on this forum I think we can't ever stop improving a base just to say that all TH 9 can be beaten anyway . (although it's kind of true. For the top war clans TH 9 is basically free and then used for scouts).

    Also I forgot to note in my initial post that the king swap from the bottom compartment is a bit too free in my opinion. There's basically 2 point defense and no splash so the king should fairly easily kill the AQ and the two archers with minimal support.

    Now I realize I've given mostly critiques and not real suggestions so here would be my real attack plan and my best feedback:

    Attack: AQ charge KiWi hog. 1 barbarian, 4 healers, 8 minions, 4 wiz, 12 wb, rest hogs (including CC) and fill with archers. Spells are 3 rage 1 heal, poison and CC skele spell. Opener is a minion on top mortar and one on southwest army camp for funneling. Drop queen near DE storage but a bit to right to tank xbow and mortars. Healers deployed to the right and test wallbreaker followed by wallbreakers into the compartment. Drop first rage when queen is a bit less than half. Rage queen as needed as CC is engaged (drop wiz and minion if it is hound) and enemy AQ is engaged. As she finishes the compartment/has attention of towers up there wallbreaker the top using barb to distract cannon to let her out and continue walk. As all of this is happening (there will be some time as AQ shoots DE storage) drop BK on leftmost elixir collector followed by test wallbreaker into wallbreaker leftmost compartment. Send 3 wiz behind him. Once AQ and CC are down send 5 hogs onto each bottom archer and 2 on the bottom mortars if they were skipped. Cleanup minions start at the bottom. The left and right compartments should be cleared so they will run right through the middle. Save the heal for the top and drop supporting hogs there as needed. Also drop skele spell on BK as hogs get near due to lack of splash up there. Cleanup shouldn't take too long as hogs end up top and minions should work on the bottom nicely while the AQ really shouldn't be in any danger. throughout the whole raid. If when I'm making this comp I realize I have a too many hogs being made (I didn't crunch any numbers) then I can devote more to an extra healer, cleanup minions or wall breakers or the like.

    Suggested changes: The bottom compartment and generally the bottom section has no space for teslas so there's no need to guess for the attacker. I suggest moving the buildings to make some 2x2 spots and also to place a tesla down there to make the king swap for the queen harder. That or a skele trap. The rightmost compartment is too valuable for a queenwalk. The CC basically must be a lava hound and a seeking air mine there would help this. The lack of splash coverage near the BK means hogs ending up there supported by skele spell is brutal. I recommend placing a mortar or one of the wizards closer up there. The red air bombs near the wiz towers are super overkill. A decent laloon attacker would path a lava hound over them and trigger them as it goes by while hasting loons behind with a heal spell to cover the wizards. I still don't like overall how easy it is for troops to attack through the base (for example GoWi through the right and work way to the left) with relatively few towers actually able to hit the core.
    Last edited by GodII; November 28th, 2017 at 05:49 AM.
    Recently returned from a ~2 year retirement. I may be an old dog, but I still got some tricks up my sleeve.

  7. #17
    Senior Member CHANDRIANO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodII View Post
    For the most part the queen doesn't need to jump the wall; the attacking queen will kill her. Also depending on the weight of the kill squad a jump can be used to get to the core anyway so jumping to the queen shouldn't be too bad.

    I guess I don't really see how good hog attackers are losing their hogs at kings compartment. It's a nice and open area away from splash to drop a skele spell if needed and otherwise heal over that spot (since there are 5 point defense there you likely need a heal anyway).

    The time to take out the mortars is relatively low so I don't think it's a worthwhile tradeoff. Due to the openness of the base, there should be pretty low time spent beating walls and whatnot so I don't think time outs should be too common.

    I won't argue that there exists some sort of unhogable or unbeatable base, but I think this one is certainly a bit easier for fairly experienced attackers because of some weaknesses pointed out. For the knowledgeable base designers on this forum I think we can't ever stop improving a base just to say that all TH 9 can be beaten anyway . (although it's kind of true. For the top war clans TH 9 is basically free and then used for scouts).

    Also I forgot to note in my initial post that the king swap from the bottom compartment is a bit too free in my opinion. There's basically 2 point defense and no splash so the king should fairly easily kill the AQ and the two archers with minimal support.

    Now I realize I've given mostly critiques and not real suggestions so here would be my real attack plan and my best feedback:

    Attack: AQ charge KiWi hog. 1 barbarian, 4 healers, 8 minions, 4 wiz, 12 wb, rest hogs (including CC) and fill with archers. Spells are 3 rage 1 heal, poison and CC skele spell. Opener is a minion on top mortar and one on southwest army camp for funneling. Drop queen near DE storage but a bit to right to tank xbow and mortars. Healers deployed to the right and test wallbreaker followed by wallbreakers into the compartment. Drop first rage when queen is a bit less than half. Rage queen as needed as CC is engaged (drop wiz and minion if it is hound) and enemy AQ is engaged. As she finishes the compartment/has attention of towers up there wallbreaker the top using barb to distract cannon to let her out and continue walk. As all of this is happening (there will be some time as AQ shoots DE storage) drop BK on leftmost elixir collector followed by test wallbreaker into wallbreaker leftmost compartment. Send 3 wiz behind him. Once AQ and CC are down send 5 hogs onto each bottom archer and 2 on the bottom mortars if they were skipped. Cleanup minions start at the bottom. The left and right compartments should be cleared so they will run right through the middle. Save the heal for the top and drop supporting hogs there as needed. Also drop skele spell on BK as hogs get near due to lack of splash up there. Cleanup shouldn't take too long as hogs end up top and minions should work on the bottom nicely while the AQ really shouldn't be in any danger. throughout the whole raid. If when I'm making this comp I realize I have a too many hogs being made (I didn't crunch any numbers) then I can devote more to an extra healer, cleanup minions or wall breakers or the like.

    Suggested changes: The bottom compartment and generally the bottom section has no space for teslas so there's no need to guess for the attacker. I suggest moving the buildings to make some 2x2 spots and also to place a tesla down there to make the king swap for the queen harder. That or a skele trap. The rightmost compartment is too valuable for a queenwalk. The CC basically must be a lava hound and a seeking air mine there would help this. The lack of splash coverage near the BK means hogs ending up there supported by skele spell is brutal. I recommend placing a mortar or one of the wizards closer up there. The red air bombs near the wiz towers are super overkill. A decent laloon attacker would path a lava hound over them and trigger them as it goes by while hasting loons behind with a heal spell to cover the wizards. I still don't like overall how easy it is for troops to attack through the base (for example GoWi through the right and work way to the left) with relatively few towers actually able to hit the core.
    This is a good analysis and I beleive your attack skills are well above the average. Adding a tesla on the bottom would be possible, so would be moving the skeleton trap from the tesla farm compartment to the BKs. I will keep close watch at hog attacks at war (there is a th9 using this base again in our wars) and consider these changes if a version 1.2 of this base comes.
    About the red traps, they can't be triggered by hounds, because there would be no ADs in their path from any angle you deploy them. It's common for a good laloon attacker to use a heal spell when he sees a WT farm, but the red traps and teslas are there to assure the loons will go down with or without heal spell. After one year of use without been 3 stared by laloons at war, I can assure you the red traps (combined with the ADs placement that keep hounds away from them) really work.
    Last edited by CHANDRIANO; November 28th, 2017 at 02:49 PM.

  8. #18
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    Queen walk east corner with lavaloon from the sw. 3 stars. Nice thread though.
    Last edited by Jcraw; November 28th, 2017 at 06:32 PM.

  9. #19
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    I'd be curious to see how it holds against GoVaHo

  10. #20
    Used this design in our last war. I am an early th9 (two xbows, lvl 1, ADs level 7,7,6,4, ATs lvl 10, WTs lvl 4,3,1,1, and Teslas 5,3,3,2). This base was lavalooned 3 times (their #13,11, and 6), with the third attack finally getting two stars and 83%. I am our #13. My defensive CC was a baby drag, witch, and archers.

    Their #3 (fully maxed th9) finally govaho'd me for 3 stars on the fourth attack.

    This design really does wonders vs lavaloon, and actually did well against the govaho (the valks were routed outside after the first two compartments and took heavy damage).

    Good results on the first war.

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