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Thread: Dear Supercell: Let us choose, and see what you learn about MM

  1. #1
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    Dear Supercell: Let us choose, and see what you learn about MM

    Many of us out here really love Clash and are disappointed by the difficulty of getting a fun war matchup. In part that's because "fun" to some is different from "fun" to others. Many of us would like to be able to just build our bases up "normally" (maxing most or all of a base before upgrading the TH) and many others think it's more fun to try to "crack the MM code". But I suspect that most of the people running engineered bases are doing the "if you can't beat em, reluctantly join em" thing. Anyway, here's a very simple thing to try that might make a lot of people happy:

    Add (3) checkboxes to the Clan War Size 5 "Start War" screen:

    [ ] No Benefit for Engineered Bases (or whatever wording your Ux designer likes)
    - This would make a simple adjustment to put a floor on all total-war-weights (where "n" is the TH level e.g. TH9): [TH{n}_base_weight] = [TH{n-1}_max_base_weight] + all upgrades from TH{n-1}. In other words, a TH10 is always at least weighted as a max TH9 + upgrades from max TH9, etc. Very simple way to allow non-maxed bases to play but eliminate the advantage for engineered bases.

    [ ] Cap TH at same max level
    - The obvious effect being both Clans in the War would have the same Max TH level, fixing the issue in Clan Wars where one Clan has a TH11 and the other doesn't, making it pretty tough for the TH11-less Clan to win (due to the top attacks being the deciders because of 2 attacks per TH).

    [ ] One Attack Per Town
    - Remove the two-attacks-per-town, making the bottom half of the roster more relevant. This is perhaps a little more unforgiving and makes bad players stand out more, but at the same time, if you find many Clans prefer it, the advantages are pretty obvious.

    Of course, matches would only be made for Clans with the same selections.

    This could be purely "experimental" and only for Clan War Size 5 (which I think you'd find would be quite acceptable to players, since there is no precedent set yet). And you could make War Size 5 Wars not count toward Clan War record for the time being.

    I bet you would find very quickly that most players prefer "No Benefit" and "Cap TH at same max". You could even remove the 3rd option if you were concerned about finding matches in time.

    Please?

    Thanks,
    A Dedicated and Money-Spending Clasher

  2. #2
    Forum Elder TankSinatra's Avatar
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    These come up pretty often. There are substantial drawbacks, see here for more info -
    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...AQ-Matchmaking
    Level 10 Adult War Clan METAMUCIL.
    And some of us are old enough that its not just a funny word...
    Metamucil keeps the red out of our logs. Small wars, great record, low pressure.
    War Record - https://cocp.it/clan/82GJJV2J

  3. #3
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    So

    1 remove any advantage a rushed base has over a maxed base, buff maxed bases
    2 Put mad base firmly at top of hill, huge buff over any other playstyle
    3 Defence rushed and Max base buff

    Yes maxed bases would chose these options, why not have

    1 remove any advantages maxed bases have
    2 buff engineered bases
    3 have 3 attacks per townhall

    how about trying to create parity instead of a playstyle buff?
    Last edited by Vikingchief; 6 Days Ago at 06:26 PM.
    Clan - Highland chiefs, Highland rebels, Highlandchiefs2
    Position - clan lunatic
    Accounts - 11 heavy with eagle!!! What have i done, D rushed 11; 10.5, 2 x 10.25; premmi 10.5; 2 x noob rushed 11; super 9.05 (9.11), badly rushed th11, super 9.25 (9.11 in progress).

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by TankSinatra View Post
    These come up pretty often. There are substantial drawbacks, see here for more info -
    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...AQ-Matchmaking
    The substantial drawback to #1 is cited as "the volume of rushed players", which is why it's an optional selection that would tell SC if they're catering to a real or imagined demand overall.

    The drawback to #2 from that thread... well actually #2 isn't discussed and definitely not discussed as a Clan-selected option.

    The drawback to #3 is that it makes Wars unforgiving, and again, this is an imagined demand and could be settled by asking players to decide.

    Again, the key to this suggestion (per the title of the post) is NOT that these are new ideas for MM; it's that they are ideas that have a clear, deterministic effect that addresses many common complaints. Whether they should be implemented is a matter of preference, not a matter of technical correctness or efficacy. Therefore, they are worth running as a community test rather than an series of op-eds by YouTubers (or SC moderators... or designers... etc.).
    Last edited by mmssntk; 6 Days Ago at 10:06 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vikingchief View Post
    how about trying to create parity instead of a playstyle buff?
    "Playstyle" of engineered bases is a "loophole" according to SC.

    However, the point is that these are OPTIONAL and therefore would tell SC if the community really wants these changes (after getting to experience the impact) or not. And they're SIMPLE to implement and understand.

    Really, the only other way forward (if you're not going to allow community to actually show you their playstyle preference) is to use a data science approach... the amount of stats SC has should allow them to create a purely-data-mined MM algorithm. But they seem more inclined to try an intuition-based approach, which isn't going to work with a problem space this wide. They need to narrow it (e.g. via #1 checkbox) if they're going to continue to try to address it using human intuition (e.g. "raise the offensive weight of Wardens")

  6. #6
    Forum Elder TankSinatra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmssntk View Post
    The substantial drawback to #1 is cited as "the volume of rushed players", which is why it's an optional selection that would tell SC if they're catering to a real or imagined demand overall.
    The drawback to #2 from that thread... well actually #2 isn't discussed and definitely not discussed as a Clan-selected option.
    But the overarching problem with matching clans is that the pool size isn't large enough. An "optional selection" to further split the pool would be a big problem, adding a further "th match" check would result in searches lasting for days even for non-engineered clans.

    From the FAQ -
    FAQ 12. Obviously SC needs to switch to matching by TH only...

    Strict townhall matching cannot work. The war pool is huge, but would need to be an order of magnitude larger to allow exact matching by TH. See here for some details - https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...1#post11069019 Note this example shows the difficulty of townhall matching even if it doesn't address variation within townhall level (i.e. fresh vs max). Add gradations within TH level (to account for a fresh TH10 with no infernos or th10 war troops vs a heavy th10 with all the goodies) and the problem worsens.




    Quote Originally Posted by mmssntk View Post
    The drawback to #3 is that it makes Wars unforgiving, and again, this is an imagined demand and could be settled by asking players to decide.
    Very few would check the "one attack per base" box. Less attacks for me? Nobody to cover for a screwup? I can't cover for somebody that DCs/loses their phone? You'll have such a tiny pool opting for "one attack per base" that a successful match would require lighting an extra candle at Hanukah to celebrate the miracle.

    I'll note though that you can accomplish what you're looking for in a league, like the NDL. Competition is stiff though.
    Level 10 Adult War Clan METAMUCIL.
    And some of us are old enough that its not just a funny word...
    Metamucil keeps the red out of our logs. Small wars, great record, low pressure.
    War Record - https://cocp.it/clan/82GJJV2J

  7. #7
    Millennial Club blombardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmssntk View Post
    [ ] One Attack Per Town
    - Remove the two-attacks-per-town, making the bottom half of the roster more relevant. This is perhaps a little more unforgiving and makes bad players stand out more, but at the same time, if you find many Clans prefer it, the advantages are pretty obvious.

    Of course, matches would only be made for Clans with the same selections.

    This could be purely "experimental" and only for Clan War Size 5 (which I think you'd find would be quite acceptable to players, since there is no precedent set yet). And you could make War Size 5 Wars not count toward Clan War record for the time being.
    Honest decent suggestions I've seen before - the one attack per town idea is pretty awful however - as many players use multiple accounts in war (with the same offensive ability) so they can have multiple attempts on every base - this allows them a higher chance of success and easily circumvents supercells past attempts to curb this.

    -Players USED to be able to use both of their attacks in war - on the same base -- of course if you hit the base a 2nd time you would gain no more loot and no more stars; but you could have a 2nd shot at getting 3 stars on it. This was changed 3 or 4 years ago; I forget when exactly... this was back when clan wars were new.

    Website- Clan Recruitment - War Weight - Suggested Upgrade Paths
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  8. #8
    Senior Member stealthmtn's Avatar
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    I could not check any of these boxes.

    By trying to incorporate these solutions to make the war mm more fair, it would actually make the mm less fair, or just shift the disadvantage to another base/clan build.

    If people want fair matches, its need to be for all, and not specific base/clan build styles.
    IGN: Sneak Peak; TH10 - Lvl 185; 1072 War *s; GG 1.4b; EE 1.6b; HH 9.5m; FIN 375k;
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