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Thread: Adapting to the New AI, Part Deux

  1. #1
    Forum Elder TankSinatra's Avatar
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    Adapting to the New AI, Part Deux

    After four weeks and 650 complaints in the main thread alone, we get some word as to what's screwed up about the "improved" ai. Darian's posts in the ai thread in the general forum:

    Quote Originally Posted by Darian[Supercell] View Post
    I apologize for the lack of response on this thread. Been traversing across China so I've been largely away from the dev team. Lach and Holps have been spearheading gathering information regarding this and I felt it merited an official response to what was changed in the AI in the last update.

    Previously, when a troop/unit tried to target something from the side of the wall they were on, they would look at the 3 closest buildings to target. Now they consider 5. It’s important to note that being on one side of the wall is the key point. When a unit is on one side of a wall, we made the unit target selection consider more buildings and attack positions when determining the place to attack.

    This is why it seems the AI has been functioning differently that before; it's because of this new targeting consideration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darian[Supercell] View Post
    The reason behind the change was to address how units behaved at certain ranges. You'll have to forgive my horrible MS Paint skills but I hope this illustration helps identify what was changed.

    The green square is the unit. The black lines are the walls. The black squares are buildings.

    1. Red line - Under the previous AI, if a unit tried to target the building with the red "X" in it, it was inconsistent as to whether or not it would try to break through the wall or if it would path around it.

    2. Blue line - Now the AI will try to consider if that building is indeed the best target and it will try to path a more direct route to it. It will consider the distance of the walls it needs to run around to determine if going through it is the better path or if pathing around the walls are more effective.

    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...1#post11180109

    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...1#post11180180


    Really don't know what to make of this. No word on if its considered to be working as intended, going to be fixed, or anything else. Not even a PR "we continue to evaluate and will make improvements as necessary". I think that means its here to stay.
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  2. #2
    Forum Elder SuperStorm103's Avatar
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    Thanks for reposting tank. My problems with the new AI is that the troops thinking for themselves makes it hard to plan an attack. If they are truly smart, I had this conversation with cnaf, it would look consider where all the other troops are on the map and determine where it would be the most useful. (Talking about the golem)

    Wall breakers are a perfect example. I know where I want the wall to be broken. I should be able to drop a wall breaker perpendicular to that section and it should break that wall. I don’t care if it does 1% damage to a structure or not...

    Last war we had an attack that truly illustrated how the “smart golem” is too smart for its own good. Every time a wall broke anywhere on the map it paused what it was doing, if it happened to open up a compartment with a defense, the golem would retarget that defense on the other side of the map. If the defense was destroyed while the golem was pathing there, then it would retarget another defense somewhere on the map. Until another wall section was broken and a defense tower exposed. At which point it changed again to go for a walk about.

    As a tank unit, you don’t want it making drastic large movements leaving the rest of your army exposed. A player should be able to position a golem fairly accurately and have it remain in that vicinity working towards the next closest defense staying in front of your troops.

    I had a recent attack where kill squad made it to the core via jump spell. Golem was banging the wall trying to get to the xbows on the other side, great! Then a perimeter troop triggered an external tesla 30 tiles away. The golems seeing a still active jump spell reversed out of the core and started pathing 30 tiles to the external tesla leaving my kill squad unprotetected getting slaughtered by the defenses no longer targeting the golems....now we have two useless golems wondering around the outside of the base.....
    Last edited by SuperStorm103; 1 Week Ago at 04:58 PM.

  3. #3
    I agree with OP here, we really need more answers. To me it doesn´t work in the way Darian showed in the picture, its actually the opposite.
    Last edited by Neminoppan; 1 Week Ago at 05:05 PM.

  4. #4
    Forum Elder TankSinatra's Avatar
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    Onyx digs up some some more details on how it works. https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...p-AI-explained



    Still no word from anybody as to how to adapt to it. Clash on chief!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TankSinatra View Post
    Onyx digs up some some more details on how it works. https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...p-AI-explained



    Still no word from anybody as to how to adapt to it. Clash on chief!
    That thread by Onyx is great, extremely helpful. How to adapt is something we need all figure out, ideally together. The obvious start is knowing it’s looking at 5 rather than 3 buildings. Just thinking of that has already helped me a little in understanding what my troops both do (when it’s too late) and will do (when it’s timely). It’s going to involve - minimally - breaking down bases in a different way when planning attacks, funnelling wider, being very careful with timing delayed core runs on ring bases, adjusting other drop timings to suit particular cases... and quite a bit more. Fortunately some of us - notably Onyx for example- are good at explaining and illustrating the principles, while others grasp more intuitively through experience without necessarily being able to say it in words. I’m pretty confident though that all of us can learn to adapt, just as we learned to attack the first time. And I’m betting those who were strong attackers before but are now struggling will adapt fastest, as they don’t have additional issues of poor form. The starting point is grasping what it does and how, and it’s good we have that now.
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    Something just occurred to me and is just a theory.

    Troop behavior does not seem to be consistent, at least not for me. It used to be, but maybe I have not adjusted yet.

    Could this be some sort of anti-modding initiative?

    The way I understand it, modders hit a base repeatedly on a private server until they 3 star a base. Then they record the attack and the computer performs the exact same attack in the real game. Troops and spells are dropped at the same times in the same places and abilities are used in the same way and etc.

    But if the troop behavior was slightly randomized then modders could not rely on their programs to have real success in game.

    Just a thought but only time will tell if and when we all figure out how to use the new troop ai consistently.
    Last edited by B1gb8dwo7f; 1 Week Ago at 04:41 AM.

  7. #7
    Forum Elder TankSinatra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TankSinatra View Post
    After four weeks and 650 complaints in the main thread alone, we get some word as to what's screwed up about the "improved" ai.

    ...

    Really don't know what to make of this. No word on if its considered to be working as intended, going to be fixed, or anything else. Not even a PR "we continue to evaluate and will make improvements as necessary". I think that means its here to stay.
    Happy to be wrong here. Revert coming - https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...1#post11192606
    Level 10 Adult War Clan METAMUCIL.
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    Forum Elder TankSinatra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B1gb8dwo7f View Post
    Something just occurred to me and is just a theory.

    Troop behavior does not seem to be consistent, at least not for me. It used to be, but maybe I have not adjusted yet.

    Could this be some sort of anti-modding initiative?
    I've looked for logical reasons behind this too, but we're overthinking it. Randomized wb spread hurts modders a bit, but any ai change that makes prediction more difficult, that makes pathing less intuitive, HELPS modders. They get to "practice", test things out, the rest of us don't.

    I also wondered if it was an intentional aqwalk nerf. Which wouldn't be ridiculous, if they decided aqwalks were too ubiquitious at high ths (as well as a modders playground it seems to me), nerf would be logical. Though not so logical without an accompanying buff elsewhere, as the triple rate at th10/th11 doesn't support an offense nerf without an offense buff.

    But that's all overthinking, desperately searching for a good answer when the simple one is probably best. The BB is the shiny object, the current money maker, so they improved the ai there without bothering to test for downstream effects.
    Level 10 Adult War Clan METAMUCIL.
    And some of us are old enough that its not just a funny word...
    Metamucil keeps the red out of our logs. Small wars, great record, low pressure.
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  9. #9
    As you were, I read https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...rs-Are-Here%21 and think you need to adapt back to the old AI ...

    Wow, supercell listened!

  10. #10
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    Thanks for the info.

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