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Thread: Unfair matches.

  1. #1
    Noctaire's Avatar
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    Unfair matches.

    One of the most common complaints we see on the forums centers around matchmaking. Many players feel it is unfair to be matched against higher Builder Hall levels (BH5 vs BH6, or BH6 vs BH7, for example).


    As you play the game, you earn trophies. What you win, or lose, is based upon your game and your opponentís. The formulas inside the black box...nobody knows. Suffice it to say that when you come up against a more difficult opponent, you will typically earn more trophies for beating him. Likewise, if you lose against a weaker opponent, youíll lose more trophies than if the other guy was more on your level. The range here is subtle - weíre not talking hundreds of points or anything, just enough to be noticeable.


    The idea is that you will accumulate more trophies as you become a stronger competitor - that as your PERFORMANCE improves, so will your overall ranking. This system is nothing new; itís based on one used in Chess for decades and that has been used in some professional sports and video games. Believe it or not, the same, basic algorithm is even used on Tinder of all places. (Check out Tilerís thread on Matchmaking Mechanics for more details.)


    Now, youíd think - on the surface - that all things being equal, BH level would be a relatively accurate reflection of your strength and capabilities in the game. After all, a BH7 game is far superior to a BH5 game...right?


    Thatís where things start to get complicated. Remember - we want to measure performance so we can be matched up with other players who are as close to our peers in the game as we can get. Turns out...BH level ainít such a good way to measure a player for matches.


    See, your BH level will likely not match up to your overall capabilities, Attacking Skills, or even the base design you use. I talk about four pillars of Clash....


    1: Offensive Capabilities - What your offense can do.
    2: Attacking Skills - What you can do with your offense.
    3: Defensive Capabilities - What your defense can do.
    4: Base Design - What you can do with your defense.


    Playersí strengths and weaknesses in these four categories will determine their overall effectiveness in the game. Itís possible for one player in a match to have very low defensive capabilities while his opponent has high offensive capabilities and the stronger offensive player will win the match. This happens often in matches where the BH levels are not equal - many forumers have beaten BH7 opponents with a BH5 game; even three starring them occasionally!


    About now, you might be asking how that could be so. Case to consider - you can go from a brand new game to a fully deployed, BH6 in 3 weeksí time. It will take another week and a half or thereabouts to get to BH7. (Thatís all F2P, by the way.) Your defenses will all be ultra low - nothing higher than level 3, most still level 1 or 2; walls level 1; only one usable troop. Such a player is also probably going to be very poor at attacking since they hyper-rushed to the top.


    Is that game really a BH6 or BH7? Could such a player possibly take on a more measured, well developed game at his/her BH level?


    The answer, of course, is no. More importantly - this will be reflected in the playerís rating. He/she will be low in the trophy rankings and the vast majority of wins he/she achieves will be against otherwise lower levels of BH. Of course, the flip side is true as well - most of that playerís losses will be to lower BH levels.


    There will always be other BH levels in your range (again - about a lot more than just your BH level!) but the matches are usually pretty even. There will be the occasional winning streak or losing streak but it all works out in the end! To ease the pain, try to balance the four pillars mentioned above and consider the meta - time of day effects, ground vs air, etc.


    If you would like to further pursue this topic, check out these other articles/threads....

    The Four Pillars of Clash - Part 1: Offense

    The Four Pillars of Clash - Part 2: Defense

    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...BH1-vs-BH8-etc

    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...83-Matchmaking

    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...aker-Mechanics
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  2. #2
    Millennial Club Uggster's Avatar
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    Dont forget the time of day attacks and the win/loss ratio nerfings....

  3. #3
    Noctaire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uggster View Post
    Dont forget the time of day attacks and the win/loss ratio nerfings....
    There’s a sticky off the main thread about ToD issues, so we have that one covered. I’ve never bought into the win/loss ratio nerfing though. I have 9 games going and I just don’t see it. My win/loss ratio is 3 out of 4 or 3 out of 5 on all 9 games and I don’t see the losing streaks often enough for them appear to be anything more than chance, certainly not after I’ve been winning a while. Right now, my KussVonNacht game is sitting at 7/1/2 (W/L/D). By your definition, I should experience a losing streak soon to adjust but it’s actually pulled 4 3-Star wins already today (stacked attacks).

    Although...i’, going to start losing if I don’t stop doing really dumb things like I just did on my attack.... <Grumble>
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  4. #4

    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctaire View Post
    One of the most common complaints we see on the forums centers around matchmaking. Many players feel it is unfair to be matched against higher Builder Hall levels (BH5 vs BH6, or BH6 vs BH7, for example).


    As you play the game, you earn trophies. What you win, or lose, is based upon your game and your opponent’s. The formulas inside the black box...nobody knows. Suffice it to say that when you come up against a more difficult opponent, you will typically earn more trophies for beating him. Likewise, if you lose against a weaker opponent, you’ll lose more trophies than if the other guy was more on your level. The range here is subtle - we’re not talking hundreds of points or anything, just enough to be noticeable.


    The idea is that you will accumulate more trophies as you become a stronger competitor - that as your PERFORMANCE improves, so will your overall ranking. This system is nothing new; it’s based on one used in Chess for decades and that has been used in some professional sports and video games. Believe it or not, the same, basic algorithm is even used on Tinder of all places. (Check out Tiler’s thread on Matchmaking Mechanics for more details.)


    Now, you’d think - on the surface - that all things being equal, BH level would be a relatively accurate reflection of your strength and capabilities in the game. After all, a BH7 game is far superior to a BH5 game...right?


    That’s where things start to get complicated. Remember - we want to measure performance so we can be matched up with other players who are as close to our peers in the game as we can get. Turns out...BH level ain’t such a good way to measure a player for matches.


    See, your BH level will likely not match up to your overall capabilities, Attacking Skills, or even the base design you use. I talk about four pillars of Clash....


    1: Offensive Capabilities - What your offense can do.
    2: Attacking Skills - What you can do with your offense.
    3: Defensive Capabilities - What your defense can do.
    4: Base Design - What you can do with your defense.


    Players’ strengths and weaknesses in these four categories will determine their overall effectiveness in the game. It’s possible for one player in a match to have very low defensive capabilities while his opponent has high offensive capabilities and the stronger offensive player will win the match. This happens often in matches where the BH levels are not equal - many forumers have beaten BH7 opponents with a BH5 game; even three starring them occasionally!


    About now, you might be asking how that could be so. Case to consider - you can go from a brand new game to a fully deployed, BH6 in 3 weeks’ time. It will take another week and a half or thereabouts to get to BH7. (That’s all F2P, by the way.) Your defenses will all be ultra low - nothing higher than level 3, most still level 1 or 2; walls level 1; only one usable troop. Such a player is also probably going to be very poor at attacking since they hyper-rushed to the top.


    Is that game really a BH6 or BH7? Could such a player possibly take on a more measured, well developed game at his/her BH level?


    The answer, of course, is no. More importantly - this will be reflected in the player’s rating. He/she will be low in the trophy rankings and the vast majority of wins he/she achieves will be against otherwise lower levels of BH. Of course, the flip side is true as well - most of that player’s losses will be to lower BH levels.


    There will always be other BH levels in your range (again - about a lot more than just your BH level!) but the matches are usually pretty even. There will be the occasional winning streak or losing streak but it all works out in the end! To ease the pain, try to balance the four pillars mentioned above and consider the meta - time of day effects, ground vs air, etc.


    If you would like to further pursue this topic, check out these other articles/threads....

    The Four Pillars of Clash - Part 1: Offense

    The Four Pillars of Clash - Part 2: Defense

    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...BH1-vs-BH8-etc

    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...83-Matchmaking

    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...aker-Mechanics

    While I understand the need for skill based match making in a competitive game and I'm sure its not nearly as noticeable at higher tiers. For the past several days I've been BH3 Which has one archer tower (this is just one defense, many of your defenses add 25% or more with BH4.) I would venture to guess (I might even be underestimating I think I've only seen 4 or 5 total BHs that were my level since I started playing) that at least 8/10 of the last 10 I did before making the jump to BH4 myself were all BH4 with 2 archer towers thats a 100% increase in the strongest defense available atm imo. While sure I manage to win when the person plays poorly or I just get plain lucky the archer tower alone stacks the odds heavily against me. Add the 25% more attacking force and all the other new defenses you get in BH4 and sometimes you go in to a loss and there is nothing you can do which leads to 3 or 4 matches in a row of "dumping trophies" and waiting 2 minutes for your troops to replenish (I mean I still try to win you never know but sometimes it just not possible if they are enough higher) which is quite boring. Then I go on to win once or twice and remake all the trophies I just lost since they are higher BHs than me which just keeps feeding the same problem. I think my issue is this. I'm ok with going against people with slightly stronger bases than me. But once you get above 20-30% stronger thats just plain unfair and not fun. I mean thats like an mmorgp where a lvl 20 is facing a lvl 25....its just no contest most of the time even if the other player is absolute trash. The real kicker is I finally jumped to BH4 expecting to be on an even footing finally and every base its put me against so far is an at max or near max BH4 while I just advanced 12hrs ago with a pretty much maxed BH3. I should be rewarded for my skill not punished. The 5k extra resources is not worth going against almost impossible odds I'd rather drop down a tier.

    Update: I've now lost 9 times in a row to people with an extra army camp, higher leveled troops gone down nearly 200 trophies and I'm still facing people WAY stronger than me. I really liked this new game mode to begin with and its why I started playing the game again but this isn't even fun.
    Last edited by Dalkonzar; November 8th, 2017 at 12:29 AM.

  5. #5
    Noctaire's Avatar
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    I know your pain, D....

    The matchmaking is more than skill based - the rating is really a natural composite of skill and capabilities. Players with higher capabilities tend to rise in the ranks, whereas those of lesser capabilities tend to be lower rated until they buy more from the shop or get a few upgrades under their belts. Same goes for Skills - lots of players have the advantage of more stuff on the game grid - even more upgraded stuff - but they canít attack their way out of a wet paper bag and so end up losing often enough that they donít advance. Sometimes, though, you just fall into a rut of players who are advancing - they picked up on both capabilities and skills, and you just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong times.

    Likewise, when you upgrade to the next level of BH, you have a few days where you just cannot seem to match well for nothing. Youíd think you would end up getting the guys who were like you BEFORE you upgraded, but thatís not what happens. IMNSHO, thatís because there arenít as many guys like you at that point in the trophies; you were already an anomaly. So...you end up on a losing streak and it is as frustrating as frustrating can be. Itís not limited to BH3 going to BH4 either - I saw it when I took a game to BH6 here recently and now, with 2 more games upgrading to BH7, I expect to see it on those two as well.

    The easiest solution is to buy the level-up bonus packs for the added boost they provide your game; that will typically get you past the level-up doldrums. Barring that...itís a matter of patience and spackle. Patience while things level out (usually just a few days) and spackle to repair the drywall.

    FWIW, I was SO frustrated with this game until I finally figured out the best way to develop my game and got to BH5. I really considered hanginí it up for good. A few of our fellow forumers talked me off the ledge and now Iím having a blast, putting out strategy guides and playing 9 games daily.
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  6. #6
    Forum Veteran Yachi's Avatar
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    I would like to see another mode of game play for BTH. No trophies, a fixed amount of loot per win, same lvl BTH matches. Just fair fights, skill vs skill, base design vs base design. Takes away a whole lot of frustration.


  7. #7
    Noctaire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yachi View Post
    I would like to see another mode of game play for BTH. No trophies, a fixed amount of loot per win, same lvl BTH matches. Just fair fights, skill vs skill, base design vs base design. Takes away a whole lot of frustration.
    So...you mean what they have in the top 200...?
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  8. #8
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    Don't forget the 5th pillar and by far the most important. _LUCK_ - in the screwy AI messes up in your favor - then great, if not then you lose regardless of skill (generally). So, luck has a HHUUUUUUUUUGEEE part of the game.

    BTW- congrats Noctaire on the new badge!
    Last edited by jskoe; November 8th, 2017 at 04:27 AM.

  9. #9
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    Matching by BH level had a bigger problem associated with it.

    This type of matching would separate players by bh level so each level would essentially have it's own ladder.

    This would mean low level bh players could reach 5k+ as they only face players of the same level.

    And some bh7s world be pushed down in the bh7 ladder, all the way to the bottom where the loot bonus is so low that it would take weeks to save enough for a level 7 upgrade. These of players are likely to just give up meaning the players above them will get pushed down (someone has to lose). Leading to a vicious cycle of pushing the weakest (combination of skill, troop and building levels) bh7s down until they quit and then the next weakest are pushed down until they quit, etc

    Under the current system this is avoided because the weakest bh7 is pushed down until they are facing lower level bh who they can beat and maintain enough trophies to get reasonable loot.

  10. #10
    It has always been somehow unfair but my last match just was on another level.
    Me at BH6 Level7 just faced a guy at BH10 which was fighting me with Mega_Knight. I just couldn't stand that situation and left the mach. Once I left the game for 6 months because of these unfair attitudes, it's not hard to leave it again while nothing has solved.
    Thanks.

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