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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Clan War Mismatch - Gathering new infoz (again for science)

  1. #491
    Great post SuperStorm.

  2. #492
    Clan ID:#2Pj00jqg
    Clan name:gr8xpectations
    War Start Date:12/11/2017
    War Start Time (GMT): 11:45PM GMT
    Comment: Ever since the beginning of time, my clan has mostly had mismatches in the other clan's favor, I suspect mostly because of our excellent war record. We have had to overcome NUMEROUS mismatches to keep our good record. Now with the new algorithm, in most cases we can't even win. The war has already ended before it has begun. Current war record, 286/37/11

    Current War 20 vs 20:

    Our clan:

    5 TH8s, level 3 drags, wooden walls, TH7 or TH6 level ground troops. Level 6 ADs, level 5 teslas, rest of defense are leven 1-4
    2 TH7s. level 2 drags, wooden walls, level 5 ADs,level 3 Teslas, level 4 and below for all other defenses
    7 TH6s level healer and the rest are TH5 troops, no defense for most of the bases, just one canon
    The rest are TH4s and TH5s with no defenses and no walls, only max troops for their THs

    Other Clan:

    2 TH9s, 1 with 4 level 5 defenses, level 8 archer towers, and a level 5 AQ, 220 army camp, mostly leven 8 walls and some levle 7 walls. Notably for offense, extra spell, and level 4 drags.The 2nd base is rushed defense but 2 level 6 AD and 1 level 5 AD army camp 205 with level 3 drags, still MUCH higher than our number one base.

    2 TH8s, base one has level 5 ADs, not as strong as our number one base but stronger than our number 2 base. Base two has level 7 walls, and level 5 ADs, level 3 dragons

    4 TH7 bases. base 1 with level 4 ADs, the other bases engineered with just 1 to 5 defenses. Most with dragons

    The rest are TH6s, 5s, and 4s with equivalent defenses and walls, not engineered

    Now what is not fair... their lowest base is a TH4, ours is a TH3 with no walls. Their number 17 base is a TH6 with no walls one canon, ours is a TH4 with no walls, one canon. Their number 15 and 16 are TH7s with no walls and a few minor defenses. Our 15 and 16 are TH6s no walls two level 1 canon and 1 level 1 AT but still. Their number 14 is a max TH4 with wooden walls and all defenses for that TH level. Our number 14 is TH6 no walls, two level 1 canons and 1 level 1 AT.

    The list just goes on, but in any case... we are greatly outmatched at the TOP, the MIDDLE, and the LOWER. a TH6 with no D or walls can only hold 150 troops, the TH7s can hold 200, same designs... no walls, no defenses really. Truth is we will likely win this war, but it won't be easy but we shouldn't have to overcome such odds to do so. It's been like this for nearly EVERY WAR! And even when we war with non engineered bases, we still get mismatched such as TH9s vs nearly maxed TH10s and TH11s even, it just does not make sense. It's as if COC just wants us to lose or even out our war record.


  3. #493
    Clan ID:#2Pj00jqg
    Clan name:gr8xpectations
    War Start Date:12/09/2017
    War Start Time (GMT): Not really sure

    This was was even MORE lopsided! We lost by one star. Normally I could defeat a newer TH9 even with xbows but with level 9 walls and four level 7 air defenses I can't use ground troops or air troops to defeat it. Walls are too strong for ground troops, and ADs are too strong for loons or dragons. Their clan had 2 TH9s, 6 TH8s, and 6 TH7s vs our clan's 8 TH8s and 6 TH7s. Honestly in about 20 - 30 matchups, we do get one that is very lopsided in our favor. In most cases, the matchups are lopsided more than moderately in the other direction. In about 10% of the cases, we can't or shouldn't even win unless we can somehow convince the other side to quit because we have already 3 starred all the bases except the ones we know we can't 3 star but have already high 2 starred it with our lower bases making them "think" we could 3 star it with our last 4 attacks if we wanted to or having the other clan's members not want to waste time or looting attacking in a war they might lose. So that forces either the other clans high accounts to attack our highest bases first so we know exactly what we need to win, or they just give up.

    If you are able to look at the history of our wars, you will see what I mean... no wars are ever in our favor offensively or defensively even with our engineered bases.
    Last edited by gr8xpectations; December 13th, 2017 at 12:38 AM.

  4. #494
    Superstorm,

    You are absolutely correct. We are a warring clan and grew as an engineered clan with engineered bases because that's how the game was played then in order to get ahead. That said, our clan is no slouch either we can hold our own in war with our regular accounts TH8 - TH11 but whenever we war with regular accounts, we get the same type of matchups that you do. Your clan must hold onto a good war record as well and I suspect Supercell just wants some clans to lose if their records are too "good".

    Anyway anyone with a brain knows that this game is not consistent with their AI. Take my anti 3 star defensively engineered TH9 base, when it was new no one could 3 star it or even 2 star it with TH9 or even TH10 troops. It is not a youtube base so no one has seen it unless they have attacked me. But as time goes on the same base now gets 3 starred every now and again. So when that happens, I change it to my other anti 2 star base and again no one can beat it anymore again. Then viscous circle when that one gets too easily defeated. Another example is how when I upgraded to TH11 (just a few weeks ago) my max TH10 troops were now INVINCIBLE! They could attack TH10 and TH11 bases and 3 star them... WOW! I only upgraded because I was tired of being paired in war with TH11s when I was only a TH10 or having to loot TH11s every time I searched. Now about 4 weeks later, the same TH10 troops are no longer able to consistently 3 star TH10 or TH11 bases. Did I just get so bad in 3 weeks? I don't think so.

    Although my clans bases are engineered, I like your idea about the war situation though and honestly it is the most fair I have seen. No one should be able to war unless they at least have all the minimum number of defenses, walls, and resources from the previous level... as you say, even level one. Having engineered alot of bases, I know that a th4 with max defenses and max walls weighs more than a TH7 with one canon, max upgraded resources, and max army camps. Now how are th4 troops able to defeat a TH7 with max resources? They can't even destroy the resources in 3 mins let alone kill the CC troops.

    I have adjusted my play as needed to be successful on COC up until now, but with this being so unfair now whether I use "real" bases or engineered one I might just end up quitting this game for good. COC already takes up alot of time but once it becomes a waste of time it's no longer fun. You shouldn't have to lose just so others can win.
    Last edited by gr8xpectations; December 13th, 2017 at 12:59 AM.

  5. #495
    Again, I see I am one of the few engineered clans/bases talking on here... but it's honestly not fair from where I'm at either. We engineered because we had to. I have something to add to the post above by superstorm. I'll paste it below for your reference. If it is SO HARD for Supercell/COC to match up clans why don't they just do a best case scenario. You put in all the members that you want in war, supercell tries to match what you put in but if it CANNOT, after 12 hours sometimes it searches for my clan, then just take the bases that match up best to another clan looking and instead of a 25 man war make it a 15 or a 20. I would still rather have that than the lopsided wars that you know you can't win.

    It's HAMMER TIME!

    Seriously, why are defensless bases even allowed in clan wars? It's 100% taking advantage of the loop hole caused by working with "Averages". It’s not a strategy is blatant manipulation. SuperCell wants to start closing loop holes, well drop the hammer and say villages cannot war without all relevant defenses from the previous townhall in place even if they are level 1 (your a th11?, okay, you need all th10 defenses to war)! Close that loophole! Roster Engineering takes a hit and hopefully no more of the silly wars, where 25% of the roster does not match!

    Regards,

    SuperStorm


  6. #496
    Forum Elder SuperStorm103's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gr8xpectations View Post
    Again, I see I am one of the few engineered clans/bases talking on here... but it's honestly not fair from where I'm at either. We engineered because we had to. I have something to add to the post above by superstorm. I'll paste it below for your reference. If it is SO HARD for Supercell/COC to match up clans why don't they just do a best case scenario. You put in all the members that you want in war, supercell tries to match what you put in but if it CANNOT, after 12 hours sometimes it searches for my clan, then just take the bases that match up best to another clan looking and instead of a 25 man war make it a 15 or a 20. I would still rather have that than the lopsided wars that you know you can't win.

    It's HAMMER TIME!

    Seriously, why are defensless bases even allowed in clan wars? It's 100% taking advantage of the loop hole caused by working with "Averages". Itís not a strategy is blatant manipulation. SuperCell wants to start closing loop holes, well drop the hammer and say villages cannot war without all relevant defenses from the previous townhall in place even if they are level 1 (your a th11?, okay, you need all th10 defenses to war)! Close that loophole! Roster Engineering takes a hit and hopefully no more of the silly wars, where 25% of the roster does not match!

    Regards,

    SuperStorm

    We are not supposed to discuss the match-ups posted in this thread (per Darians request).

    And for the record, itís not that we are good, itís that clans built like that are more often then not bad and squander any advantage gained through ďloop holesĒ. Even though we are going to win the above match best case scenario for them (55-53) itís still a really bad match. Attacking and defense skills (for both sides) made the difference. Our #1 put up 92% and 96% on their #1 and #2. They had issues with lavaloon spam and the troops I stacked our ccís with (all archers or all archers + a baby drag)

    Good luck.

    Edit: I didnít give them enough credit. They got 54 stars. 1 short of our 55 stars. We also edged them out on destruction by .6%.
    Last edited by SuperStorm103; December 13th, 2017 at 05:43 AM.

  7. #497

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperStorm103 View Post
    Seriously, why are defensless bases even allowed in clan wars? It's 100% taking advantage of the loop hole caused by working with "Averages". It’s not a strategy is blatant manipulation.
    It's more than just blatant manipulation, the truly defenceless base is uniquely toxic: it prevents opponents from playing the game. The problem of a defenceless base is not just a balance one, and it's not solved by improvements to the MM. Every war someone has to do a pointless attack to clear it. People want to play the game. I don't much care if opponents have bases with TH9 defence and TH10 offence or whatever as long as war is balanced. But One Cannon Wonders spoil the fun. They are an action that explicitly prevents players from enjoying the game, and should be treated as such.

    But then players have been complaining about them for ages and it's not gotten us far so far. (Here was my effort almost a year ago)
    Various data posts: Who plays what? CWL data 1 (stars), 2 (3* rates), 3 (rosters), 4 (start times and other) Data at end of old Legends And (non-data) how max bases are ordered in war
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  8. #498
    Junior Member
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    Clan ID: #2UPG8YYR
    Clan name: Wisconsin
    War Start Date: 12/12/17
    War Start Time (GMT): 2:47 AM GMT
    Comment: Again, they had the advantage on both defense and offense. 20v20.
    Defense: (Us: 1 lvl2, 4 lvl1 Eagles) (Them: 6 lvl2 Eagles) (Us: 6 lvl5, 2 lvl4, 2 lvl2, 2 lvl1 infernos) (Them: 12 lvl5 infernos)
    Offense: (Us: 10 attacks with th11 troops) (Them: 18 attacks with th11 troops)
    Is there a fix in sight?
    Last edited by Ak7lives; December 13th, 2017 at 03:02 AM.
    AK7lives
    In game name: DBSmooth
    Name: Dave
    Clan: Wisconsin
    TH10

  9. #499
    Fresh Spawn
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnyxDS View Post
    It's more than just blatant manipulation, the truly defenceless base is uniquely toxic: it prevents opponents from playing the game. The problem of a defenceless base is not just a balance one, and it's not solved by improvements to the MM. Every war someone has to do a pointless attack to clear it. People want to play the game. I don't much care if opponents have bases with TH9 defence and TH10 offence or whatever as long as war is balanced. But One Cannon Wonders spoil the fun. They are an action that explicitly prevents players from enjoying the game, and should be treated as such.

    But then players have been complaining about them for ages and it's not gotten us far so far. (Here was my effort almost a year ago)

    Itís never going to change because Supercell makes too much money off of those who engineer.

    Iíve stopped warring. I have two max TH9s. Itís just not fun anymore. Two less accounts, out of tens of millions, are out. Our clan is not warring as much either.

  10. #500
    No point to all these posts ... seems like supercell is ignoring us .... they have announced the fix for engineered bases unfair matching since six months ... but sadly their recent maintenance update 10 days ago, has reverted back all changes and we r back being matched against engineered clans ... seems like all of six months work been cancelled by someone in supercell ... all of our last 4 wars are of unfair matching ....

    the fix is very simple , lets have a priorty 1 rule of clan matching as follows:
    (1) if a base has any th11 level troops or defenses, then it should be matched against th11 base whether same defenses or higher , but never lower than th11 (the same for th10, th9, or below) ....
    (2) second rule (which should be lower factor and only used as complementary) , is using the averages of offenses and defenses of the clan as per current practice ..

    For example , if my clan has only th9 bases or lower, then u should never match me with any clan that has th10 or th11 level troops or defenses


    please supercell ... it is very simple ... just do it and stop this unsense of defenceless engineered th11 being matched against th7 or below
    Last edited by sirhanr; December 13th, 2017 at 04:20 PM. Reason: grammer and spelling

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