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Thread: Matchmaking FAQ

  1. #11
    Forum Veteran TankSinatra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFSoul View Post
    Tank, thanks for putting this together. Definitely helps.

    Not sure if you want to include this, since it's directly from SC:

    Q: Does the MM look for lopsided bases?
    A: Yes. There is a "huge amount of code behind the CW matchmaking that specifically looks for lopsided bases and is designed to mitigate any unfair advantage they might have."

    I'm not sure I would add it because it doesn't seem to apply in practice.

    I have all the SC MM posts that stated what they intend to do (i.e. identify manicured bases and eliminate the advantage...balanced approach to offense and defense, etc.) but none of that is playing out. Your FAQ would lose credibility.
    Yes think I'll leave out anything about checkboxes, lopsided checks, points directly addressing engineering. Too controversial and unclear.
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  2. #12
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    Add:

    There is one indication of the offensive weight: the recommended target in a recently started war (no attacks yet) in conjunction with the defensive weights roster of the opponent.
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    How war matchmaking works - my take: https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...1#post10989427 .

  3. #13
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    Current win streak and possibly related historical information are regarded in matchmaking (strongly in the past, less so now).
    Strategy co-leader of clan 40CW.
    How war matchmaking works - my take: https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...1#post10989427 .

  4. #14
    Forum Veteran TankSinatra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urizano View Post
    Add:
    There is one indication of the offensive weight: the recommended target in a recently started war (no attacks yet) in conjunction with the defensive weights roster of the opponent.
    Valid but I'll leave it out. Pretty sure its true but its somewhat controversial, opaque, and generally requires tracking over several wars.

    Quote Originally Posted by urizano View Post
    Current win streak and possibly related historical information are regarded in matchmaking (strongly in the past, less so now).
    This I disagree with. SC mentioned recent win record as going into the matchmaker but never explained how, and certainly never confirmed it was win streak. A better hypothesis I've seen is that there's a simple checkbox for "recent loss rate > 50%" or something like that, to put weaker clans against eachother. But that's just a guess, without some confirmation of specifics I wouldn't put it in a FAQ. Darian could of course...
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  5. #15
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    I like your posts a lot Tank.

    Not sure about this idea though.

    The most likely algorithm is a line fit; couple things have been made clear to me in this sub over time.

    1. Most here do not understand line fitting or math past high school
    2. When you can see the output, but not the inputs, it is very hard to reverse engineer such an algorithm

    At this point, I think it reasonable that one could challenge some of the accepted parameters, such as defensive weight being accurate.

    Also, in a line fit, the most important criteria is the noise ratio, and that arguably, if 1 set of inputs is correctly sorted by defensive weight ( such as my clan, which is also sorted offensively as well ) , you are in fact "matching" your mirror.
    Last edited by ryryshouse; 1 Week Ago at 08:13 PM.

  6. #16
    Forum Veteran TankSinatra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryryshouse View Post
    I like your posts a lot Tank.

    Not sure about this idea though.

    The most likely algorithm is a line fit; couple things have been made clear to me in this sub over time.

    1. Most here do not understand line fitting or math past high school
    2. When you can see the output, but not the inputs, it is very hard to reverse engineer such an algorithm

    At this point, I think it reasonable that one could challenge some of the accepted parameters, such as defensive weight being accurate.

    Also, in a line fit, the most important criteria is the noise ratio, and that arguably, if 1 set of inputs is correctly sorted by defensive weight ( such as my clan, which is also sorted offensively as well ) , you are in fact "matching" your mirror.
    Don't intend to put any algorithm details in the FAQ, because I don't know them and wanted this to be the FAQ that SC would have up top (if we had some kind of minimal SC forum engagement). Visible defense weights clearly scale with weight (you & I will agree sometimes poorly) and are often tinkered with, just seems absurd to me that its all a ruse.
    At this point either its true and SC doesn't care that we know (so they should just acknowledge it, maybe in some kind of FAQ post!), true but SC doesn't want us to know (so hide it you geniuses), or a subtle trick to confuse engineers (but engineers do well by watching observed weights so they might as well drop it).

    As to the 'th8 drawing a th11' I'll think about how to reword that. The complaint I'm trying to address is the usual complaint about drawing an engineered clan and seeing a th11 across from your th8 due to defense sorting.
    Last edited by TankSinatra; 1 Week Ago at 10:24 PM.
    Level 10 Adult War Clan METAMUCIL.
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    Metamucil keeps the red out of our logs. Small wars, great record, low pressure.
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  7. #17
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    How about adding something like “your clan’s matching is affected by the whole of roster lineup, rather than just by each base taken one by one”. I had in mind here both the sorts of questions people have about what rosters to run and the questions they have about their own base build (“should I drop/upgrade x”). You might also add “if your roster is an uncommon lineup you may likely either wait longer for matches or see more matches to clans that are less similar to yours lane by lane, because you can only match with the set of similar enough clans out there searching at the same time” (thinking of the cases of the highly engineered clan and the all th9 clan).
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  8. #18
    Forum Contender Warios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TankSinatra View Post
    1. Bases are not matched to their mirror. It is incorrect to say 'my th8 was matched to a th11.'

    2. Strict townhall matching cannot work. The war pool is huge, but would need to be an order of magnitude larger to allow exact matching by townhall.

    3. Your base's defense weight is reflected by the amounts in storages on war day (NOT prep day), and can also be seen when scouting a friendly challenge. This is defense weight only.

    4. Offense weight exists but cannot be checked like defense weight. Troops, heroes, and spells all count towards matchmaking, though it remains controversial as to whether they are weighed enough or properly. But if your clan is lopsided (meaning your offense is ahead of your defense) consider that this might contribute to bad matches. Link :-(3.00 onwards) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33o4C6SNess

    5. Clan level does little to indicate clan strength and is NOT counted by the matchmaker. Player experience does nothing to indicate clan strength and is NOT counted by the matchmaker.
    In reference to point 3, wonder how many people were wondering how the 1 cannon th11 at the bottom spot had a 10,000,000 war weight?

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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TankSinatra View Post
    Don't intend to put any algorithm details in the FAQ, because I don't know them and wanted this to be the FAQ that SC would have up top (if we had some kind of minimal SC forum engagement). Visible defense weights clearly scale with weight (you & I will agree sometimes poorly) and are often tinkered with, just seems absurd to me that its all a ruse.
    At this point either its true and SC doesn't care that we know (so they should just acknowledge it, maybe in some kind of FAQ post!), true but SC doesn't want us to know (so hide it you geniuses), or a subtle trick to confuse engineers (but engineers do well by watching observed weights so they might as well drop it).

    As to the 'th8 drawing a th11' I'll think about how to reword that. The complaint I'm trying to address is the usual complaint about drawing an engineered clan and seeing a th11 across from your th8 due to defense sorting.
    My point is that, if a line fit probable... "you" have to understand that 2 things are occurring.

    First - the data is ordered
    Second- some data is discarded

    So the issue we have is when you see a th8 mirrored to a th11... we don't know if the opp roster was reordered or that data was discarded.

    Since my roster is always sorted as it appears .. what this means is that when we see these trash matches, the theory of opponent base out order is less likely. The reason is that if we have 5 max th11 and the open has 8 non max but with eas, then 10.5 or whatever , the reordering becomes illogical as the line would now be unable to "fit" by virtue of putting all the outlier data together. Line fit works when the outlier data is spread out.

    Hope I'm making sense

  10. #20
    Forum Superstar dorsan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TankSinatra View Post
    3. Your base's defense weight is reflected by the amounts in storages on war day (NOT prep day), and can also be seen when scouting a friendly challenge. This is defense weight only.
    I am not 100% sure that it is the real defense weight. It is more likely that the storage values are scaled from the real defensive weight. In which case you might have something like this:
    max th9 - 800
    max th10 - 1000
    max th11 - 1500

    But then those numbers are scaled.. 800 will be equal to 70, 1000 will be equal to 90 and 1500 will be equal to 110. The storage amounts do tell which town hall is below which one, but I am not 100% convinced they tell the actual weights. For example if you have a large weight advantage on top and large weight disadvantage on bottom, by rule if you add up all of the weights for both clans, you will always be at a total weight disadvantage. Which points to non linear weights in the actual matching.

    Quote Originally Posted by TankSinatra View Post
    4. Offense weight exists but cannot be checked like defense weight.
    Don't agree with this either. As much as defensive weight is measured by storage values, offensive weight is related to the recommended target on the first minute of the war before anyone attacks. But just as with the defensive weights, these results are not 100% representative of the actual values used in the matchmaker.
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