War MM & Cannon Cart changes - the FEEDBACK thread!

[L0stp33ka]

our war line up is #1 new th 10 ,#2-#6 th9 ,#7-#15 th8/7...our #1 hav heroes30/33 ,#2 30/30 rest have 25/25 to 10/10. and our enemy clan #1 th 11(th9 defence/level 6 dragon and 15/20heroes)..#2 th9,#3 th10( dr@gon 5,bowler level 2),#4 th9 ,#5 th10 (dragon 5)...#6-#15 th8/7..... (is this a fair war ? )......this is a punishment of having high lvl of heroes as th9...or supercell want us to rush th 10/11 with low heroes like engineer clan.......,,,also in current war we have same war line up and enemy clan have #6 a th11 with lava max level,loon 7, warden level 15 and bk/queen ...10/15..... is this a fair war????

[Prince1999]

You left out a third one. Maxer clans facing bigger maxer clans. In other words- a maxer clan with say a 6/12/9s spread pairing with a maxer clan of 12/8/9s.

But WHY are these matches happening? I agree that they are, but I honestly am not sure I understand why. The MMA obviously sees these two clans as equal, but we do not. What is the MMA looking at differently than we are.

One theory that I am trying to compile evidence to support/disprove is that (in response to player demand for more weight for warden???) they have greatly increased the weight of all heroes. The warden still seems to be out of whack. However, in some cases, when I look at the details it seems that the clan with the obvious offense AND defense advantage, has a slight hero disadvantage. It appears, in the limited number of cases that I have seen, that there is a trend of BK/AQ weight seems to be offsetting higher troops and higher defenses. In these cases it does not appear to be justified. That is, in practice, it would not actually balance the scale that having a few extra BK levels on average would make up for facing higher level troops and next TH level defenses. I am nowhere near enough evidence to say this is the likely culprit, but it does need more study.

[VicThorious]

Unfortunately, what I gather so far is engineers are matching engineers and facing uneven matches. Maxers are also still facing engineers with an uneven match, although possibly less often than before. To me, this isn't good enough. If engineers are going to randomly get bad matches, then there is no point to engineer and SC should just implement a fix that totally nerfs engineering and get on with it, especially since maxers are still matching engineers.



They have always been engineers. That is the purpose of making a .5. However, there are different types of engineering and it is a problem if the matchmaker is treating them all the same (I don't know that it is).

I've become a 10.5 because I am in a war clan and we felt it was advantageous to have more on offense than defense. Most of the core of my clan has done the same to keep up with enemy clans who were following the same route. So .5 bases have become common practice for war clans, particularly larger war clans. Since last month we got a couple of clearly engineered bases (second accounts) which we let them stay after some discussion, and we left until now since they weren't influencing matchups (we were also getting more engineered bases) and outcomes. With the new matchmaking system, we faced 2 heavily engineered clans and we lost two in a row (actually we gave up on this last war, which was the first time it happened). Morale is low, the more dedicated ones have put their red shields, we'll go down from 30vs30 (took a long time for our clan to reach this goal) to 25vs.25 or 20vs.20. Actually the .5s I refer to are more .6 or .7 ths, but we are completely clueless of what to do (shall we be out of wars until we max our defs?). I have comments that even "normal" clans (I haven't seen one for ages in war) are also facing unfair matchups. I think SC should be transparent with the MM algorithm as everyone would understand unfair matchups and proactively find ways to improve. From the comments here, I have over 10 negative comments per positive comment. MM really got worse

[mdimascio]

We are a clan trying to war with ~12 TH11s, ~8 TH10s, and ~5 TH9s. We have generally pretty high level heros throughout. We have definitely noticed the MM change, as our hero strength has been resulting in 2-5 more opponent TH11s than we have. We understand this mechanism and it's been challenging to adapt. We have almost reported a few of them for simply too many 11s, but this latest is outside the boundary of reasonability. Most notable is the TH9 comparison!
TH11 us 13, them 17.
TH10 us 7, them 8.
TH9 us 5, them 0.
They have 400 wins to our 300. Their hero levels are slightly less overall than ours, but not by much.
We feel SC needs to look closer into this for their feedback analysis. Please contact me for more detailed information. This match is new and we are a couple hrs into prep day.
Thanks!
Den of Earth
'Murica (#PQYYCJ0Y)

SuperCell, I am here with our results. We lost by 1 and we had the tie breaker %. One more good raid and we had it. I must say that your MM algorithm does seem to have some excessive equivalencing methods between hero levels and # TH11s. That being said, our TH10s are forced every war to raid the top TH11s to try for 2. TH10s cannot help any other way except 3 star TH9s or weak TH10s. My prediction has been that you will buff TH10 troops once the TH11 defenses are mostly upgraded to the new max levels. Or give TH10s a lvl5/10 GW. Is this your plan?
Thanks,
Den

[Rst]

Also deeply disappointed. Last two wars against heavily engineered clans. We'll get two losses in a row (don't remember the last time it happened).
This was a step back SC... You should be clear about MM rules

Looks like you are playing clans suited to your play style so the MM is working as intended.

[Rst]

. We are not engineered, but do have several .5s..

Then you are engineered and getting matched against other engineered clans

edit - noticed in a later post that you accepted that point although .5 was only a valid upgrade path to gain an unfair advantage with the war MM.

[CHANDRIANO]

I think SC should be transparent with the MM algorithm as everyone would understand unfair matchups and proactively find ways to improve. From the comments here, I have over 10 negative comments per positive comment. MM really got worse

That's so true. In any real sport there are clear rules to be followed. If you are a boxer or a MMA fighter, you know that your weight is what defines your category. If you are at a soccer team, your league will define your adversary skill level.
Yes, boxers can "engineer" losing weight before a fight, but the rules are clear and everybody know what to do. That's why it's a fair fight, even if each fighter have different speed or strength.
But on clan wars we don't know the rules. Yes, if we did know, we would "engineer". But with transparency comes fairness. We need to know these rules, just like that boxer knows his.

[VicThorious]

Looks like you are playing clans suited to your play style so the MM is working as intended.

Looks like you haven't read the whole post

[ZygnusX1]

...for SC it's not [semantics] .5 was the original engineer. SC wants the new defenses on the ground and upgrading along side of offense.

This is a great way of looking at it. The rise of hyper-engineered defenseless bases has made 0.5 seem normal, when 0.5s exist to create mismatches within a given TH level.

That said, if placing all new D towers is SC's goal for non-engineered "normal" bases, SC needs to (1) be 100% clear that this is the case and (2) adjust weighting of tower placements such that new towers are much lighter, until significantly upgraded. Currently a lot of weight seems to be applied to placing a tower vs upgrading a tower. I see plenty of 0.5s with fully upgraded (but no new) defenses that only weigh 1-2k above a new TH. New towers are almost useless. yet placing them adds weight which currently matches you uphill against someone with stronger, upgraded defenses. I'd hate to see a freshly minted TH9 drop all new new towers and suddenly finding themselves weighing 63k while being weeks away from having offense to fight equally.

[Rst]

Looks like you haven't read the whole post

Im afraid your sig gives it away.

You are 10.5 with max heroes and none of your th11's have eagles and the 10's I looked at had no infernos.

Why are you surprised that you being matched with other engineers, it is the way SC intended the MM to work.

Edit - my post was responding to your post 874 regarding your disappointment with the MM if you look at what I quouted ( i.e. The whole post) not any later posts.