War MM & Cannon Cart changes - the FEEDBACK thread!

[Rst]

Hi,
I have a question about the new MM system:
My clan has a lot of bases, that don't have dropped all the defences for their th level. For example we have Th10s with max defences, that didnt drop the thrid X-Bow and ITs. Are these bases rated as engineered in the current MM system? I think so, because we were matched against a completely (hardcore) engineered clan in our current war.

Thanks for replies!

The only reason I can see not to drop defences is to help manipulate your war weight to pull potentially easier opponents so I think you would be considered engineers, yes, so the MM would match you against similar clans / play styles.

[Hornswoggle]

If y'all think about it, by not putting down an available defense, it's an attempt to defeat the system by having a lower war weight to gain an advantage.

I have now run 2 wars with all bases having the defenses for their current town hall and the previous town halls and have found the wars to be a fair and winnable challenge while the previous 3 weren't fair because I was running some .5s and a couple minmax.

From my observations, if you want a more fair match, dump the .5s and anything that can be construed as engineered or trying to gain an advantage.

Ok thanks. I will give this information to my clan.
For me the reason not to drop new defences is, when you are fresh at a certain town hall level, you need a lot of time to get your troops ready for the current th. For example a th10 needs several month to get all the troops needed to max level, while you can get the new defences in about two weeks. So my approach to the game was to max the current defences while maxing my troops in the lab and then get the new defences. I think, this approach is far different than maxing troops for th10 while not having a single defence in your base (hardcore engineered), but I understand, that the MM system cannot be that precise.

[jskoe]

It is very humorous to me that someone I know got on the wrong side of someone with arbitrary power because they were incredulous that people actually believed the lie that ♥♥♥♥♥♥cell was actually working on this problem and some of those people had the audacity to actually repeat that lie!!!! Well, that individual was actually telling the truth and they know they are 100% vindicated with their thought that rational people will would not trust ♥♥♥♥♥♥Cell one super cent! They have made matters worse - we just finished a 10v10 with 4 11s - 1 close to enough to max to be legit and, one meduimish and 2 really new (gw's ability not even activated yet)- with all defenses dropped for th. We had 3 10s and 3 8s. They had 6 11s 3 10's and 1 9 - almost all max offensive troops for their level and many defenses missing. We have 0 engineers in our clan and will not let them in. The matchmaking certainly has not gotten better - not much worse than before but no better. So, my opinion is that ♥♥♥♥♥♥cell did nothing to the matchmaker but talk about it in "small cell" format over coffee so they could say they were working on it. But, this is only one person's opinion which is valid to them and that is really all that matters.

[CrazyBear99]

Ok thanks. I will give this information to my clan.
For me the reason not to drop new defences is, when you are fresh at a certain town hall level, you need a lot of time to get your troops ready for the current th. For example a th10 needs several month to get all the troops needed to max level, while you can get the new defences in about two weeks. So my approach to the game was to max the current defences while maxing my troops in the lab and then get the new defences. I think, this approach is far different than maxing troops for th10 while not having a single defence in your base (hardcore engineered), but I understand, that the MM system cannot be that precise.

Yes, the MM system can be that precise. It's not a programming issue (well, unless there's an actual bug that they won't admit to) but rather an algorithm issue. This can be addressed with a better algorithm. They just don't want to put the amount of effort in that this would require.

[mbear78]

I actually think it is not one time, i start to believe after reading comments that SCs new algorithm to soon declares a label engineered. I run a familyclan which we encourage players to max, clearly some are rushed but definately not in an engineering way. However, all our last 4 wars were against engineers pur sang! We still beat the ♥♥♥♥ out of them twice so no complaint just providing feedback

Just trying to gather some info here. I want to see this system work out as the next person. When you say "non engineered", did everyone in your lineup have all defenses from every town hall up to and including their current town hall?

Yes... absolutely.

Non-engineered means that the bases have all defences at varying levels of development.

[maxmeister23]

Just for those of you wondering... Just did a 3TH 11 war against a clan with 10... Matchmaking is clearly sorted out

[Bigtone2001]

War #6, and biggest mismatch by far. (Getting worse each time)

us
1-11 TH11 with EA
12 TH11 no EA, GW 12. (New th11)
13-22 TH10 with 2 infernos
23 TH10 with 1 inferno
24-26 TH10 no inferno (new th10)
27-30 TH9

No engineered bases, all at different stages of upgrading normally.

them
1-13 TH11 with EA
14 TH11 no EA, GW 20, Max troops
15 TH11 no EA, GW 20, Max troops
16 TH11 no EA, GW 14, Max Bowler, Witch, Valk & Giants
17 TH11 no EA, GW 14, Max Bowler, Healer, Valk, Wiz & Giants
18 TH11 no EA, GW 15, Max Bowler, Valk, Healer & Giant
19 TH11 no EA, GW 13, Max Bowler, Healer, Valk & Giant
20 TH11 no EA, GW 17, Max Bowler, Valk, Hound, Loon
21-26 TH10 with 2 infernos
27 TH11 no EA, no infernos, GW 15, Max Bowler, Valk & Healer
28 TH11 no EA, no infernos, GW20, Max Bowler, Witch, Valk, Healer & Giant
29 TH10 no inferno
30 TH9


C'mon.. Clearly 100% engineered clan, they outnumber us by 10 TH11s all with GW & Max Troops.

In 6 match ups we have had 1 that was even.
I can already see what our 7th war match will be, 30v40...

This algorithm clearly isn't working!!!

[gregenstein]

.5s are your problem along with a MM system not fairly weighting such things as a warden. Get rid of .5s and defenseless and minmax in your lineup so the system doesn't see you as "engineered".

We have no defenseless bases in our lineup. If 3 bases doing a .5 in the lineup throws us into the same category as people with defenseless account and 11 wardens, I dare say that's a problem with the matchmaker and not anything we're doing as a clan.

Do you really believe if I had replaced the 10.5, 9.5, and 8.5 in our lineup with a real boy 10, 9, and 8 that we would have gotten a substantially more fair match just because we wouldn't have hit the "engineered" check box? I'm betting 9 times out of 10 they'd still match us given the same lineups we both have right now even if I dialed down our team offense from .5's to straight THX. I don't believe that for a minute. This matchmaker is the same old matchmaker with just a few tweaks, not a complete reinvention of matchmaking.

It's my firm belief they completely missed the mark and made it worse. You can blame my clan's .5's if you want.

[JSpur5]

War #6, and biggest mismatch by far. (Getting worse each time)

us
1-11 TH11 with EA
12 TH11 no EA, GW 12. (New th11)
13-22 TH10 with 2 infernos
23 TH10 with 1 inferno
24-26 TH10 no inferno (new th10)
27-30 TH9

No engineered bases, all at different stages of upgrading normally.

them
1-13 TH11 with EA
14 TH11 no EA, GW 20, Max troops
15 TH11 no EA, GW 20, Max troops
16 TH11 no EA, GW 14, Max Bowler, Witch, Valk & Giants
17 TH11 no EA, GW 14, Max Bowler, Healer, Valk, Wiz & Giants
18 TH11 no EA, GW 15, Max Bowler, Valk, Healer & Giant
19 TH11 no EA, GW 13, Max Bowler, Healer, Valk & Giant
20 TH11 no EA, GW 17, Max Bowler, Valk, Hound, Loon
21-26 TH10 with 2 infernos
27 TH11 no EA, no infernos, GW 15, Max Bowler, Valk & Healer
28 TH11 no EA, no infernos, GW20, Max Bowler, Witch, Valk, Healer & Giant
29 TH10 no inferno
30 TH9


C'mon.. Clearly 100% engineered clan, they outnumber us by 10 TH11s all with GW & Max Troops.

In 6 match ups we have had 1 that was even.
I can already see what our 7th war match will be, 30v40...

This algorithm clearly isn't working!!!

Hey Bigtone, what you define as "engineered" may not be with the system defines as engineered. If you ask me, a th11 with a level 11 GW isn't new. That's someone "engineering" to gain an advantage. Just saying.

Also, you may have some peeps in yu our clan who might be new to their respective town hall but a matchmaking system can and won't decipher who is new to a level and who isn't. All it will see is a th10 without infernoes and decipher that as "engineering".

It's not a fun thing to have to figure out and play with but it's all we have for now. You might want to consider changing your lineup to people with all defenses built for their respective level.

[Bigtone2001]

Hey Bigtone, what you define as "engineered" may not be with the system defines as engineered. If you ask me, a th11 with a level 11 GW isn't new. That's someone "engineering" to gain an advantage. Just saying.

Also, you may have some peeps in yu our clan who might be new to their respective town hall but a matchmaking system can and won't decipher who is new to a level and who isn't. All it will see is a th10 without infernoes and decipher that as "engineering".

It's not a fun thing to have to figure out and play with but it's all we have for now. You might want to consider changing your lineup to people with all defenses built for their respective level.

The new TH11, has built walls and is upgrading them, also has built and is upgrading AT, WT & Cannon, and is working on gold storages.. So is following the usual upgrade route..

If SC are going to consider any new TH, or a TH which hasn't built every defence instantly as engineered, then 99% of people will be engineered.
What clearly is wrong is a TH11 with Max warden and troops having the same weight as a TH9.
Giving the TH a base weight that is more than a maxed TH (1 lower), so any TH11 will carry a higher weight than a maxed th10 is the only way to match these engineered clans up against each other.