War MM & Cannon Cart changes - the FEEDBACK thread!

[Rephren]

Dear SuperCell Employees,

As you know, lopsided bases make us plenty cash, please do not listen to those morons on the forums and facebook who want fair fights in wars, stuff em, lopsided stands for $$$$$$!!!! Keep up the good work and remember to keep as silent as possible on the forums, you know how they will twist anything you say and hold it against us, so use innuendo and lawyer speak to back yourself. They're pretty sharp on the forums and can spot a cash grab a mile away, but they're not important as they're only 0.1% of our user base, the rest of the sheep will buy the builder statue anyway.

Cheers and don't forget to tell them we can't put the hero's in war because of technical difficulties *smirk*.

Regards,
Your Boss

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[osuchemnerd]

When SC got rid of TH sniping, they basically said this is not the way we intended the game to be played. Then they changed it, which upset a ton of people. Then everyone moved on, and it was OK.

Clearly engineering is not the way SC intended the game to be played. If everyone in every clan engineered, then wars would suck because everyone would 3 star their opponents TH1-10 with their max TH11 troops.

SC has said in the past that I engineering is not they way they intended the game to be played (although not that directly), so why can't they do something to give players incentive to keep offense and defense balanced, since that is they way they intended the game to be played? I mean if you were at risk of matching up against a max TH11 with your minimax, what would you do? You would probably drop your defenses at least.

I guess I don't understand the duplicity in saying they want to allow all play styles but then suggest that they don't agree with engineering.

[mohaiminul1820]

Doesn't look like much changed,same old thing
we had 6 th10s at top,opponent had 3th11s(engineered) at top
We dont care much about the mismatch in the lower part of the war map but mismatch in the top part basically gives away the match

[Darrengann]

Nothing has changed. Since The update we have warred ONLY engineered clans. We aren't engineered ourselves at all.

Supercell: do not reply, I don't want to hear your ♥♥♥♥ "we will look into it". You've been feeding the MAJORITY of your player base this rubbish for over a year.

Ps: all major businesses that go out of business can pin point the moment they turned their backs on the majority of their customer base.... supercell... your business did that in 2016.

[SheerluckHolmes]

4th war after the MM update and mixed results.


First 2 wars were against another maxers clan(fair wars).
The 3rd war was against an engineered clan and we got the win (we had 1 th11, they had 3 th11, one max and 2 engineered and same number of th10 and 9 up top along with 2 th10 engineered).

4th war, again against an engineered clan(similar to last war, not against hardcore maxers). The only change we have had is that the first 2 wars, we had a th10, who is now upgrading heroes. In his place, we have a th7(max, except dragons).

Apparently, the addition of the th7 is the reason we are getting matched against engineers.

[Shepard101]

What is, according to Supercell, a " lopsided " base? Is that a th11 with just the canon lvl 1 as defense and max offense or is a th11 with all defenses (including new defenses at 11) but without the eagle also considered as lopsided and as such considered in matchmaking? I can't find in all posts here the answer. And can anyone explain if xx.5 is at the end in current gameplay? Thanks in advance

4 Wars spun so far, and I believe the answer is "Yes". A xx.5 base is now considered "Engineered" in the current meta. It's a seismic change from the way a lot of us have played for the last few years, and I'm hesitant to mandate that my 8.5s drop Xbows and 9.5s drop Infernos, but until we figure out if this determination is going to be permanent or not, they're sitting out wars. They're not happy about it, but it's the only way we're getting fair matchups. Would be nice to hear from Supercell soon...

[Vikingchief]

You can keep misrepresenting this all that you want. The idea has been circulated enough that most people are familiar with it. A new TH10 would not gain one drop of weight for their TH. They would weigh exactly what they did as a max TH9. They would match with exactly the same bases that they did as a max TH9 (except matching is done by clan and not by base, but that is a different issue.) The only base that would gain when they went up a TH level would be the heavily engineered base that skipped defenses and lab upgrades. They would gain all the weight that they were hiding from as a TH9.

he is not misrepreseting on purpose, there are threee types of townhall weighting that posters discuss without clarifying exactly which one they mean, the third one in fact is not a townhall weighting system at all, but sounds like one, and is thus discussed as one. The three types are

1) straight weight to townhall (example townhall 9 weighs 10000, townhall 10 20000 etc) - this is a terrible idea, killing new upgraders, rushers, fairness and buffring permabase maxers creating a new class of engineers.

2222) giving the base a minimum defensive weight floor based on townhall level (so a townhall 9 can never weigh less than 40000 on defence, a th10 never less than 55 000 on defence) - this idea is not good, but not as bad as idea 1, it doesnt kill new upgraders but does kill clueless noob townhall rushers. If there wasnt a just as easy system that would work far better it might be even worth discussing. To be honest in my youth I posted a suggestion to do this very thing, including suggested minimums, but quickly through the "help" of forumers who had thought a little more about the issue that this solution was far from optimal.

3 nerfednames weight tax, a system whereby you weigh the offence of the base, weigh its defence, and If the offence is ahead of the defence apply a weight tax (or penalty) thats partly proportional to the difference. In other words the higher the difference the more you get nailed in an increasing no linear way. This idea is often described as giving defencless bases a a starting point floor the weight of a Max townhall defence the townhall one or 2 place below the offence, and then for less extreme accounts a forumlar will decide the extent of the defensive weight added, becoming less at and increasing rate the closer your offence and defence are.

Despite appearances this is not a townhall weight system, Its an offence weight system (using offence at the independent variable to assign a defensive weight the depending variable) and simply uses the words townhall weight as a potential number to use as a maximum point for the penalty. - this idea is fantastic, only secondary to dorsans and onyx ideas, as it puts a weight on the thing that causes an impact in war, the offence. Its also much easier to implement than dorsans or onyx's system, and i would argue you cant use onyx's system without nerfs system.

posters should be clear which system they mean.

[pb913]

When SC got rid of TH sniping, they basically said this is not the way we intended the game to be played. Then they changed it, which upset a ton of people. Then everyone moved on, and it was OK.

Clearly engineering is not the way SC intended the game to be played. If everyone in every clan engineered, then wars would suck because everyone would 3 star their opponents TH1-10 with their max TH11 troops.

SC has said in the past that I engineering is not they way they intended the game to be played (although not that directly), so why can't they do something to give players incentive to keep offense and defense balanced, since that is they way they intended the game to be played? I mean if you were at risk of matching up against a max TH11 with your minimax, what would you do? You would probably drop your defenses at least.

I guess I don't understand the duplicity in saying they want to allow all play styles but then suggest that they don't agree with engineering.

It's because they do want you to play your own way. As long as your way is the same as their way. They want you to upgrade your defenses in any order you want....as long as you upgrade the newest/highest defense first (aka your xbow/IF/EA). If you do anything other than that they punish you by saying you are a .5 and an engineer.

[2222]

Agreed, adopt the "minimum weight rule" that naive forum members keep advocating as "a simple fix" won't make wars more fair, just the opposite. It would be a huge disincentive to upgrading from a max townhall to the next level. It would also encourage clan leaders to exclude all but max base/max hero bases from war.

And imo, it wouldn't eliminate engineering just encourage clans to build high hero, mid-to-low defense bases at the th9 level with a couple of th11 anchors.

There would be NO disincentive to upgrade from a max hall to the next level if the next level had a minimum weight since there would be no weight change. A max th9 upgrading to th10 would see no change in defensive weight since they are already at the minimum for th10 (assuming the minimum is set at the max weight of one hall below). It would totally eliminate the benefit of having a low defensive weight. It would still allow some engineering "within" the hall weight. In other words, someone might prioritize upgrading certain defenses over others to get up to at least the minimum weight.

A flat out minimum weight WILL put rushers and new upgraded THs at a disadvantage...a progressive minimum weight will help with that. (See my earlier posts on the sticky for details on that)

A minimum weight for a base based on its hall level would not disadvantage newly upgraded halls in any way, for the reasons noted above. It also wouldn't disadvantage rushers at all, assuming you mean those who rush their defense ahead, since they already have a defensive weight above the minimum. It WOULD disadvantage rushers who rushed their hall ahead but left their defense behind.

You can keep misrepresenting this all that you want. The idea has been circulated enough that most people are familiar with it. A new TH10 would not gain one drop of weight for their TH. They would weigh exactly what they did as a max TH9. They would match with exactly the same bases that they did as a max TH9 (except matching is done by clan and not by base, but that is a different issue.) The only base that would gain when they went up a TH level would be the heavily engineered base that skipped defenses and lab upgrades. They would gain all the weight that they were hiding from as a TH9.

Yeah, I'm not sure when the "minimum weight" suddenly became confused with making the hall itself have a weight. They are two different things. If you make the hall itself have a weight, that means everyone gets hit with that weight, even those who do not have their defense engineered low.

I'm not trying to misrepresent anything, I'm trying to understand how this would work in practice. The only way this makes engineering "go away overnight", is the th tax is sufficient to match a th11 defenseless base with a th11 non engineered base right?

Well how does that tax affect a th10 that maxed heroes, walls, and most of their lab the day their townhall upgrade finishes?

If the townhall alone carries enough weight to match you against the same level townhall, where is the incentive to take new townhalls to war?

As we know, bases don't "match" like that. However, what a minimum weight would do is it would make that th11 defenseless weigh on defense what a max th10 weighs. It would be a huge disadvantage to have a th11 defenseless under such a system. That is why if SC were to move to this type of system, I have suggested they give a warning of a couple months to let people get to work on dropping defense. If you are going to have the weight of a max th10, you might as well drop as much defense as you can as fast as possible.


All this said, as Viking noted, there are even better options, like the weight tax, if we have faith that it could be successfully implemented. I don't have that faith anymore, so I have given up on that. I won't argue against it, since it is superior to a minimum weight system, but I've given up on that and would be happy with a simple improvement like a minimum weight.

[JSpur5]

Hello, just my two cents on the current MM system, it's worse than ever before! We completed our 4th search under what SC determines as "new and improved" only to be matched against 5 th11s to our 2. Every war since the update has been that way. We either have to deal with it our shut up and color.

Here's my argument that I don't believe I saw in any other post. SC obviously had a way they intended the game to be played by just looking at the Builder Base. You cannot move on to the next BH until all REQUIRED elements of the current hall are built. Engineering the Builder Base simply cannot happen.
It's clear that SC recognized the downfall of the game and incorporated this into the BH. This same principle should be installed on the main base as well. If people are engineered, give them a set amount of time to build their defenses up to a minimum level for each town hall.

I personally despise the engineering as it's encroached on the "fun factor" of this game and has reduced it to the point to where I'm just ready to quit. The only thing that keeps me even remotely playing are the friendships made over the years. Where is the fun in a war where someone has 30 th11 attacks compared to someone else's 8??? I don't see how that is fun for either side.

As someone else stated earlier, install a surrender button so I can get on to the next mismatched war search.

Supercell ultimately controls the flow of this game and how it's played. So ultimately they are responsible for the downfall of it as well. Bravo Supercell Bravo, well played. You have become the Panem to our Hunger Games...