War MM & Cannon Cart changes - the FEEDBACK thread!

[Mat5592]

0/2 so far.

[eghere]

We have a few villages that I consider to be "newly engineered" (TH9s with weak/missing defenses)...more on that in a minute, but our last 2 matchups have been crazy. The war we're in now is:

us: 1 max TH11, 6 TH10s from new to mid, 18 TH9s (4 engineered), 2 TH8s near max, 3 TH7 and below
them: 4 TH11 (2 semi-engineered, 2 very engineered), 8 TH10s (4 engineered), 15 TH9s (3 engineered, a few .5s), and 3 TH8s

We pretty much have no chance when 12 members of their clan bring TH10/11 offense against our 7.

In order to try to understand the new war weighting/match making system, we downloaded a war weight calculator from a site that claims to have built a spreadsheet based on information "straight from the source". Whether that's true or not, i can't validate, but what I CAN say is that...after plugging some of our bases into the spreadsheet...the calculator is either way off (no clue what engineered is), or it explains a lot about the kinds of match ups we're seeing. IF (if) the war weight calculator is close to accurate, then the definition of "engineered" is so narrow that almost no one qualifies. In other words, we match up with heavily engineered clans because the algorithm's narrow definition of "engineered" considers them to NOT be...and so we're in the same "matching pool".

I'm certainly willing to cut Supercell some slack...no new algorithm system will be perfect right out of the gate, and it's likely tuned "too loose" in an attempt to keep matchmaking times as low as possible, but still begin to separate the heaviest engineers from the most rigid maxxers. However, it appears to be tuned way to loosely...the definition for "engineered" needs to be adjusted.

For our next war, we're going to bench all our engineers and see if our match up changes. We're not permanently benching ANYONE (it's a game, everyone wants to play), but the match up result we get with them on the bench may help us decide how to proceed. If playing with balanced villages STILL draws an engineered opponent, then there's no need to begin leveling off the few engineered players in our clan.

[Priyatam08]

Feedback:- mm is improved, cannon cart is still usless. No one is using cannon cart on my base (Bh 6) qnd my cannon cart is lvl 1 😂😂. Thanks for improved War MM 👍

[Stuwanna]

Max th11 and 3 th11 vs our 1 th11 and 4 th10s - our clan will stop war soon. Lvl 12 clan and the overpowered defense buff is ridiculous. Game is boring now. Been a clasher for 3 years and a huge fan but with overpowered defences it's not worth playing any more.

[Chief VS]

This happened this war
We had a normal war with 2 th 10s and lower. They had 5 th 11s at various stages all with wardens. Lost 43 to 44. There number 9 (one of the 11s) did the best on our number 1. Stupid matchup

[Rephren]

Would you please point to an SC statement on the above (red)?

Did you miss where they stated they do not want to remove engineering? You're obviously not on the forums a lot then, thats ok. For the life of me I can't remember where I saw it but it was posted by Darian.

[JFSoul]

Did you miss where they stated they do not want to remove engineering? You're obviously not on the forums a lot then, thats ok. For the life of me I can't remember where I saw it but it was posted by Darian.

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

I saw Darian's post, but I have a different interpretation. To me, that means they do not want to limit any progression path, which includes engineering. However they have emphatically stated they DO want to remove the advantage engineering brings to war matchmaking. Your original statement says otherwise, which is why I wanted to see your reference.

Here are mine:

SC Q&A about Engineering
https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...-Developer-Q-A

Quote Originally Posted by Anoushka[Supercell]

Hey all,How is Supercell working towards balancing Clan Wars matchmaking?

With every update there is the normal round of war matchmaking balance, and that will always shift things a bit. New troops/defenses/levels/stat changes get incorporated and weights are rebalanced according to troop usage and effectiveness.
In the last update we rolled out a couple of adjustments so that "lopsided" bases/clans don't have that much advantage as before, and the more extreme cases of lopsided clans will have a harder time finding a match, and will be matched with tougher opponents. We firmly believe in a good balance and will continue to monitor things and to roll out small (or bigger) adjustments to war matchmaking with every update."

https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...und-IV-ANSWERS

5)Does Supercell see lopsided bases as a fair and equitable playing style?

"Engineering" is a heated topic and opinions about it are divided.

Are lopsided bases anything we can prevent? If we could, should we do drastic changes? Would players put up with strict restrictions on upgrades to mandate offense-defense balance?
Say we put in a restriction, could the restrictions be balanced to be somewhat more lenient? Where would we draw the line? And if this is a complex line, would we need tools to help players manage their upgrades and understand their restrictions better?

Some cases cannot be prevented even with restrictions. For instance, thinking about launching a new troop, spell, defense or extra buildings at lower Town Hall levels. Doing balancing becomes more difficult, as any bigger rebalance could allow people to break the restrictions.

Without a restriction, what can we do? Keep in mind that we are already doing a lot. As mentioned in the previous Dev Q&A, there is a huge amount of code behind the CW matchmaking that specifically looks for lopsided bases and is designed to mitigate any unfair advantage they might have. This isn’t always obvious to players, because the war map is sorted by defense strength only. However, attack strength is ALWAYS taken into account, and CW matchmaking does all it can to make sure the “books are balanced” overall from top to bottom of a war map, both in terms of attack and defense strength. Of course we can always do better and we will continue to improve this matchmaking very often.

We can’t really prevent them without making extremely complex restrictions that will adversely impact some players and that would require a lot of time and development effort to do right - and even then they might not even work that well in the long term. Instead, we try to improve our matchmaking algorithms to reduce unfair advantages from things like lopsided bases, and we will continue to do so regularly!

[Rephren]

hehe, JF, you obviously had that response neatly packaged ready for me when you knew I was going to reference Darian's post nice catch. (even if you deny it)

In any event, the fact he has explicitly stated they do NOT want to limit any playstyle (engineering) yet they want to remove the advantage engineering has - means what exactly? It has much wriggle room doesn't it?

It's basically saying, "We accept engineering sucks and is wrong, but we don't want to remove it because many people play it" Basically there is an ulterior motive here too isn't there? If they don't remove engineering because "Its a playstyle they dont want to remove" they can then state they want to limit its advantage - do absolutely squat (as we're seeing with all the responses here) and still make plenty money.

So to summarise: they are saying they will not remove engineering, but will limit its advantage - then do absolutely nothing because that seems just lip service. And the matchups since the MM update and proving that "limit" its advantage is just that...lip service. Its genius really.

[andyrufusfeline]

3rd war into new mm system and its imho still not better but hopefully its providing adequate info for adjustments soon, losing a lot of players right now, even our leader and a few others have quit the game after years of playing. We are a clan of over 40 yr olds and the wars are honestly losing the thrill they once held. Good luck clashers

[Stormy90]

I've seen quite a number of posts of these two kinds. It's early to say and going out on a limb without enough data but it sounds like the new matchmaker is doing a far better job of protecting smaller th level average clans from being preyed on by engineers than in the past (yay!) while still struggling (and indeed going worse) at finding fair matches for clans of higher average th levels (boo... more work here please!). If so it has been a good step in the right direction and the next move must be looking at what we might call "th10s getting thumped by way too many wardens" mismatches.

Think in these 2 cases the difference is war size 10 vs 10 and 20+vs20+... Sooo to sum up what iv learned so far. To avoid engineers, we need to do smaller wars, and narrow th range. So all of us casually clans, with wide th ranges, as we like to have full clans and teach lower ths how to play, need to adapt... kick out all th8s and lower, try to recruit only th 9s and up, and tell them most wars theyll be sitting out as we only do 10 vs 10. We survive the th 11 update this would kill us off for sure and take the fun out of the game.