War MM & Cannon Cart changes - the FEEDBACK thread!

[mcleo]

I'm going to post it here to keep track of the new matchups after the matchmaker.

15 v 15

US (386W-112L-2D)
1: TH 11, 45 BK, 45 AQ, 20 GW, 109K
2: TH 11, 45 BK, 45 AQ, 20 GW, 109K
3: TH 10.5, 38 BK, 41 AQ, 16 GW, 92K
4: TH 10.5, 45 BK, 45 AQ, 20 GW, 91K
5: TH 10.5, 44 BK, 45 AQ, 20 GW, 91K
6: TH 9.5, 23 BK, 24 AQ, 71K
7: TH 9, 30 BK, 30 AQ, 70K
8: Eng 11, 45 BK, 45 AQ, 20 GW, 60K
9: TH 8.5, 10 BK, 12 AQ, 60K
10: Eng 10, 17 BK, 20 AQ, 58K
11: TH 8, 10 BK, 55K
12: Eng 9, 10 BK, 10 AQ, 40K
13: TH 8, 9 BK, 40K
14: TH 6, 21K
15: Defenseless 9, 6 BK, 5 AQ, 10K

THEM (210W-69L-3D)
1: TH 11, 45 BK, 45 AQ, 20 GW, 109K
2: TH 11, 45 BK, 45 AQ, 20 GW, 109K
3: TH 11, 33 BK, 45 AQ, 20 GW, 108K
4: TH 11, 40 BK, 45 AQ, 16 GW, 107K
5: TH 9.5, 22 BK, 23 AQ, 71K
6: Eng 11, 13 BK, 13 AQ, 5 GW, 68K
7: TH 9.5, 21 BK, 21 AQ, 67K
8: TH 9, 14 BK, 15 AQ, 67K
9: TH 9, 25 BK, 27 AQ, 64K
10: TH 9, 11 BK, 13 AQ, 63K
11: TH 8.5, 10 BK, 6 AQ, 57K
12: TH 8, 6 BK, 46K
13: Eng 9: 3 BK, 44K
14: TH 7, 1 BK, 33K
15: Defenseless 9, 1 BK, 21K

We have better offense and they have better defense.

Seems a close enough match between two engineered clans

[CHANDRIANO]

For the record, in our clan we are very careful with war weight. As a clan leader of a predominantly maxers bases with a few engineered of lesser importance and a few .5, I always avoid unnecessary offensive power (no reason for more than one 8.5 to finish an eventual remaining th8 oponent, for exemple). So we usually were able to avoid engineering (prior the mm update we were matched against good engineered clans 1/10 of the time). But once in a while, there it was a heavily engineered clan to break our win in streak.
In our last war (with the new MM) I simply didn't include those unimportant engineered bases and we have a very fair match with a couple of early th 8.5 on our side vs a couple of th 8 on their side, but an equal number of real th 9 and th10. If we could be sure that without engineered bases on our side we would always get fair matches like this, we would completely turn into a non engineering clan.

[BZ1]

I participate in a couple clans and in our first war searches after the update, we're still seeing that clans with heavily engineered rosters are able to have an unbeatable advantage in war. We just matched where our top guy is a new TH10 (no defensive upgrades yet, no TH10 troop upgrades yet but he has done spell factory and clan castle). The rest of our roster are TH9s and lower. We just matched with a clan with a TH11 (one inferno), two offensively maxed 9.75s, The rest 9s or lower, but their bottom 6 bases are defenseless TH3s. Every single one of this enemy's attacks on us will be a dip of at least one town hall level, and we don't have the firepower to beat their top bases.

Either SuperCell is unable to fix this scenario or they aren't interested. I think my clan's next move will be to kick some people out of the clan to make room for a bunch of defenseless TH3s that we can pad our war roster with in order to remain competitive. I personally don't think this is what SuperCell had in mind for clan war matchmaking, but this is what now has to be done to have a fair chance of winning wars.

Supercell cant fix this. You have 5 years of engineered bases. But they will keep tell ypu that they are trying.

[mcleo]

And the only 3 outright maxer clans ive seen report are saying 9v12 th11s, 6v12 th11s, and 5 vs 14. The only people that seem to have benefitted from the change, perhaps, are some fairly heavily engineered clans.

Actually, we are maxers clan but run without th11 and seems to be better first two wars. Last war we had benefit, this war think opponent has slight benefit but nowhere near the advantage engineered clans meeting us had

[mcleo]

Its odd, this guy is blaming this engineered clan. When in fact supercell allowed engineering for 5 years and gladly took those people's money. Interesting.

They removed th sniping after years, the message is the same, not the intended gameplay

[mcleo]

For the record, in our clan we are very careful with war weight. As a clan leader of a predominantly maxers bases with a few engineered of lesser importance and a few .5, I always avoid unnecessary offensive power (no reason for more than one 8.5 to finish an eventual remaining th8 oponent, for exemple). So we usually were able to avoid engineering (prior the mm update we were matched against good engineered clans 1/10 of the time). But once in a while, there it was a heavily engineered clan to break our win in streak.
In our last war (with the new MM) I simply didn't include those unimportant engineered bases and we have a very fair match with a couple of early th 8.5 on our side vs a couple of th 8 on their side, but an equal number of real th 9 and th10. If we could be sure that without engineered bases on our side we would always get fair matches like this, we would completely turn into a non engineering clan.

This, so true I think. It is what we see, we have always refused to counter engineer just max, and it seems mm is now better

[llams28]

Still broken. We have a terrible matchup with our current war.
20v20
We have:
2, 11s (1 max, 1 not)
7, 10s (2 near max, 2 mid, 2 a bit upgraded, 1 new)
1 Eagle, 4 inferno bases
They have:
5, 11s. (2 max, 3 mid)
2, 10s (1 near max, 1 lower)
2 Eagles, 5 inferno bases

Bottom of the maps are similar.

They have a very large edge on offense and a bit of an edge on defense.

Supercell has made the task of finding even war matchups far more difficult for themselves by catering to engineers and rushers. Trying to come up with an algorithm that can create a "fair" matchup between an engineered 11 and other non engineered bases seems to be impossible.

If you simply weigh a base at a minimum of a max prior level TH and then add on weight for each new TH lvl thing you add, you'll eliminate the huge range of bases that you need attempt to match. (Easy numbers for example. A max TH9 weighs 100. At a minimum, a TH10 would weigh 100, even if it had TH7 defense and offense. If you add an inferno to the base, the weight now goes up to 105. But if you simply upgrade defenses from TH7 lvl to TH8 lvl, your weight is still only 100)

I also think that offensive weight should be based largely (if not solely) on the single highest troop level, not the collective troop level. People currently can abuse the system by only upgrading specific troops and not even bothering to unlock many others. If someone maxes drags and does nothing with gobs they have a lower weight than someone who maxed both, while still having all the offensive firepower they need to 3 star bases. So, if a person has max miners and not everything else unlocked, they should be weighted very closely to someone with everything maxed because they ultimately have nearly the same 3 star power.

So ultimately SC is making their task more difficult by pandering to people who abuse the system (engineers) instead of just simplifying the system and penalizing people who engineered or rushed. They should also be more open and transparent about the system. The designers have a vision for what war should be, I very much doubt that it includes defenseless bases, tell people what that vision is and make it happen.

By attempting to cater to all (including those who stretch the limits in war) war matchmaking will never be even and as a result wars will continue to be less about who has more skill and more about who gamed the system better for an edge.

[cnaf]

Actually, we are maxers clan but run without th11 and seems to be better first two wars. Last war we had benefit, this war think opponent has slight benefit but nowhere near the advantage engineered clans meeting us had

It's way early- but appears to me that SC still cannot figure out how to properly address TH11s with max to near maxed GWs vs. maxed TH10s. As in,

they shouldn't be paired.

Is it really that hard to figure this out?

[Bigtone2001]

War #2
us
1-7 th11s
8 th11 no ea max troops and gw
9 th11 gw9, new th11, no ea
10-21 th10
22-25 th9

them
1-11 th11s
12 th11 no ea max troops and gw
13 th11 gw11 no ea
14 th11 gw10 no ea
15-19 th10
20 th11, Max GW and witch, bowler, healer hound valk rage heal jump freeze
21 th10 new
22-24 th9
25 th8


matchmaking post update has not improved it is worse.


i stick by my previous post of give each th a weight. This would discourage rushing/engineering in war.

their #20 is the same on offence as our #8

[2222]

It's way early- but appears to me that SC still cannot figure out how to properly address TH11s with max to near maxed GWs vs. maxed TH10s. As in,

they shouldn't be paired.

Is it really that hard to figure this out?

They could put in a check that says a clan with no th11s doesn't match a clan with th11s (and with no th10s don't match th10 or th11). That wouldn't stop the bad matches that have 10 th11s vs 2 th11s that some maxers are even facing, but it would help.