The one and only " War search after update" thread

[OnyxDS]

The MM is not that sophisticated. All it does is add up the weight of a clan into a single entity, then pairs it up with a similarly weighted clan (base).

If you believe that it becomes hard to explain why some clans are getting no match after many hours - even some where both offence and defence average to something quite mid range.

Or to explain matches like cnaf's, with 6 max th11 vs 12 max th11 - the 2 clans have hugely different total weights on both offence and defence

[iBork]

If you believe that it becomes hard to explain why some clans are getting no match after many hours - even some where both offence and defence average to something quite mid range.

Or to explain matches like cnaf's, with 6 max th11 vs 12 max th11 - the 2 clans have hugely different total weights on both offence and defence

The new MM has been divided into two "play styles". A certain type of "play style" has much less clans searching for a match, hence the long wait. You know this, SC has said that, you are well informed about it, not sure why you asking.

As to the second part, I don't know what match you are referring to. I don't know who cnaf is. However, we don't know what the exacts weights are, we don't know how SC calculates the offense weight, we also don't know what the win streak nicety does to a match. The win streak does seem to throw a curve into the balance.

Nonetheless, the reason clans gets bad matches lays squarely on their roster. It has nothing to do with having maxed bases, engineered bases and so on.

If you take the time to read the forums, and I know you do, we see all types of play styles getting bad wars. Why is that? We aren't getting bad matches. So why are they?

[lMACl]

Our second war: 15 v. 15

US. LVL4
TH10, near max 36/30
TH10, no infernos early to mid defense 21/17
2-TH9's pretty similar in weight heroes 17-17 range
TH8 mid-max level lvl10 BK
3-TH7's
Rest TH6-5

THEM. LVL5
TH11 a mix of new defense and mid TH10, all xbows, no infernos nor EA. 11/11/5 heroes
TH10 with max 9 defense, third xbow, no infernos 12/13 heroes
3- similarly weighted TH9's with max defense for most part. Heroes average just under 10 each
TH8- mid level, lvl6 BK
TH8- new
rest all th5 and lower.

There is no complaints on this match up. It's just for the record. They also have a 9 win streak, we have a 5. Both matches have been clearly different from what we have seen pre update MMA. They have taken on average 45 minutes to find. While both matches we have been out townhall'd. We have the hero advantage and slight defense up top. IMO this seems balanced and fair seeing a th11 in their line up without EA or infernos when we don't have one

[Mudbugs]

I agree it's likely a mismatch, but how long should they be kept waiting for another all TH9 clan to search in 30v30? Even if there were TH8s balancing out the higher bases, it'd still be a functional mismatch.

I'm not sure mismatches in cases like this are avoidable in practice due to rarity of the clan composition. What sort of clan (that's not all TH9) would be a nonmismatch to either side?

Search ran for about 4 hrs. We had 3 max TH9s with 30/30 heros then progressively weaker defenses, but with stronger heros than the other side. Maybe the mm put all the eggs in that TH11's basket. Idk. It had very low heros at 12/16/10, but had lvl 5 ITs, a lvl2 EA, and xbow lvls 5/5/3. Mostly Lego walls.

[Vikingchief]

The new MM has been divided into two "play styles". A certain type of "play style" has much less clans searching for a match, hence the long wait. You know this, SC has said that, you are well informed about it, not sure why you asking.

Nonetheless, the reason clans gets bad matches lays squarely on their roster. It has nothing to do with having maxed bases, engineered bases and so on.

If you take the time to read the forums, and I know you do, we see all types of play styles getting bad wars. Why is that? We aren't getting bad matches. So why are they?

there is absolute no evidence that the matchmaker is dividend into 2 playstyles versus an extra factor or ratio that matches similar plastyles. I dont know why you continue to assert this in the absence of specific information. I dont know for sure its a ratio, you dont know for sure its 2 groups.

the extra limiter is one of the reasons clans are getting bad matches, as there simply are not perfect matches out most of the time. Iether you are heavily engineered in a way other than offence rushed (including rostar engineering), or your getting some bad matches and saying you dont.

[iBork]

there is absolute bo evidence that the matchmaker is dividend into 2 playstyles versus an extra factor or ratio that matches similar plastyles. I dont know why you continue to assert this in the absence of specific information. I dont know for sure its a ratio, you dont know for sure its 2 groups.

the extra limiter is one of the reasons clans are getting bad matches, as there simply are not perfect matches out most of the time. Iether you are heavily engineered in a way other than offence rushed (including rostar engineering), or your getting some bad matches and saying you dont.

If one group is taking up to 20 hours to find a match, while another only takes about 30 minutes, you can bet we have two groups. The difference between these two groups, is their ratio of defense to offense, as a whole. Keyword here is ratio.

A clan can have engineered bases in it, but if the ratio of defense vs offense is within whatever SC specified, they will fall under the "normal" war.

A clan that has, let's say, 10 defenseless TH11's with max troops, their ratio of defense vs offense would place them as having hight offense weight. A clan that has 2 defenseless TH11's amongst bases with max defense, they could have a ratio that is within "normal".

Again, it's the ratio of defense vs offense. Has nothing to do with what you think is engineered or not. This ratio, may be what SC has said could be adjusted.

[Vikingchief]

If one group is taking up to 20 hours to find a match, while another only takes about 30 minutes, you can bet we have two groups. The difference between these two groups, is their ratio of defense to offense, as a whole. Keyword here is ratio.

A clan can have engineered bases in it, but if the ratio of defense vs offense is within whatever SC specified, they will fall under the "normal" war.

A clan that has, let's say, 10 defenseless TH11's with max troops, their ratio of defense vs offense would place them as having hight offense weight. A clan that has 2 defenseless TH11's amongst bases with max defense, they could have a ratio that is within "normal".

Again, it's the ratio of defense vs offense. Has nothing to do with what you think is engineered or not. This ratio, may be what SC has said could be adjusted.

ive never sure If your having a laugh or not. Yes, it is possible there are two groups, or, just as possible, the matchmaker has added another factor to the matchmaking being a defence to offence ratio check, or Its checking total clanwide offence and defence sums seperately as an extra check.

supercell could he then using this limiter to match clans with similar ratios, thereby not creating 2 groups at all. Or they could he creating 2 binary groups as you described, or 3 groups, or 4 groups even.

surely you understand all are possible? I dont know what they have done, and niether do you. The long search waits for clans with offence way ahead of defence could be they in a small hyper engineered group as you say, or that they are on the end of the limiter scale, and not able to match clans until supercell after a very long time losens the limiter or a clan whos ratio is within the matching error allowed searches for war.

[iBork]

ive never sure If your having a laugh or not. Yes, it is possible there are too groups, or, just as possible, the matchmaker has added another factor to the matchmaking being a defence to offence ratio check, or Its checking total clanwide offence and defence sums seperately as an extra check.

supercell could he then using this limiter to match clans with similar ratios, thereby not creating 2 groups at all. Or they could he creating 2 binary groups as you described, or 3 groups, or 4 groups even.

surely you understand all are possible? I dont know what they have done, and niether do you. The long search waits for clans with offence way ahead of defence could be they in a small hyper engineered group as you say, or that they are on the end of the limiter scale, and not able to match clans until supercell after a very long time losens the limiter or a clan whos ratio is within the matching error allowed searches for war.

That's funny, I too, sometimes think you are pulling my leg. I'm not the type that comes here to play words games. What I say, is what I mean.

Darian has said the MM does a clan wide defense/offense weight. It's always been like that. The MM does not look at how many TH11's you have, or how many TH10's you have, it does not look to see if those TH11's have Eagles or not have Eagles. All it does is add up the weight of defense and offense for each base then gives it an overall weight for the clan. It's that simple, nothing more, nothing less.

Darian also said the new MM would be able to differentiate between play styles. What is the difference between the two play styles? Is it not the ratio of defense vs offense? The MM was already calculating the defense and offense weight, so all they did was separate the two and gave it a ratio.

You are expecting way too much from SC. They either can't or don't know how to create a good War MM.

[Vikingchief]

That's funny, I too, sometimes think you are pulling my leg. I'm not the type that comes here to play words games. What I say, is what I mean.

Darian has said the MM does a clan wide defense/offense weight. It's always been like that. The MM does not look at how many TH11's you have, or how many TH10's you have, it does not look to see if those TH11's have Eagles or not have Eagles. All it does is add up the weight of defense and offense for each base then gives it an overall weight for the clan. It's that simple, nothing nothing less.

Darian also said the new MM would be able to differentiate between play styles. What is the difference between the two play styles? Is it not the ratio of defense vs offense? The MM was already calculating the defense and offense weight, so all they did was separate the two and gave it a ratio.

You are expecting way too much from SC. They either can't or don't know how to create a good War MM.

lets be clear, we both agree on

- supercell now checks clanwide defence to offence ratio as stated

where we disagree

- does supercell divide into 2 groups (as you say is certain)
- or 3 groups
- or 4 groups
- or n groups
- or simply used the ratio as an extra factor and does not then create groups at all, Its another limiter that loosens over time like the other limiters (like total weight limiter)

[iBork]

lets be clear, we both agree on

- supercell now checks clanwide defence to offence ratio as stated

where we disagree

- does supercell divide into 2 groups (as you say is certain)
- or 3 groups
- or 4 groups
- or n groups
- or simply used the ratio as an extra factor and does not then create groups at all, Its another limiter that loosens over time like the other limiters (like total weight limiter)

If we go off of what Darian said, we now have two groups. And that is the only possible calculation the MM can do. The MM is basically a calculator, it's adds up numbers, these numbers, add up to one number for the clan, it then matches clans that are within those parameters. We call them weights, to the MM it's just a value.

It now has a ratio of defense vs offense to separate lopsided defenses.

The only "limiter" the MM has, is the total weight of the clan. If it does not find a match within a creation amount of time, it then increases or decrease the value (weight) of the clan so as to match it with another.

There's nothing else the MM does.