The one and only " War search after update" thread

[dorsan]

We are in our first post update battle day.

Based on recommended targets, it seems that there were no significant changes to offensive weights either. At least none that I can notice. All 7 checked accounts have recommended targets in the same weight range as before the matchmaker change.

We also didn't notice any changes in defensive weights either, so it seems they didn't change any weights at all.

[CRJC2551]

My clan got matched vs engineers. We have no engineers and the th spread is th7 to th9. Other clan has 4 th11s 2 th10s all engineered. We were on a 5 win streak.

[blombardo]

I have two clan wars started today one is a 10x with all engineered - its match is a 100% mirror identical clan with amazingly close defensive and offensive levels across the board. 100% tie is pretty likely.
This was a 4 hour search.

the 2nd clan is a 30x, took 5 hours to match - both sides have over ten extreme offensive th11's that can insure 100% on the other - however its a strange mix match and isnt exactly a perfect match.

My side has much better hero levels - the enemy side has significantly heavier bases; the top 3 for example are defensively 20 to 30k apart in weight... my side being lighter. They are all 11's with mid to max th10 weight; unsure exactly until war starts and I can see #'s.

The match system is definitely different. From these first 2 results I can see Engineered clan vs Engineered clan // the one that has done it LONGER and BETTER will win - or they will tie.

i've seen enough complaints to know that this 'fix' is not ideal and they have to completely revamp the system to fix it... sorry supercell - but you have NOT fixed it. Search times are reported as being as high as 14 and 20 hours here in the first day... guaranteed Wins and Losses from one side to the other are also still happening...


This comes down to a simple question:

What is a 'Fair' war?
-Answer is variable.. my opinion - a Fair war means - each side has a reasonable and comparable chance to get 100% on the other clan. -- if one clan has better base designs or less attacking skill then there will be a winner and looser. -- otherwise there should be a lot more tie / draws...

Of course - that leads to a new issue... the win - and loot - I believe should be changed - the first clan to reach a 100% score should get the win. Just as in a race to the finish line, first one to complete it should win the prize.

and from there - it leads back to the original question; How to match a clan fairly?

The answer is simple -- publish the war match system publicly and let all of us see it - and give an educated idea on how to fix it. After collecting data from all the players willing to help - then you can re invent the system to make everyone happy.

and yes - thats not hard to do. Everyone can be happy. It just requires a couple extra steps... like making IN GAME Networks - let the game assign yourclan to one of those networks, you can request to be changed and someone can communicate to you how to make that happen - but generally speaking -- all your 'maxers' can join the 'maxer' network -- all the farmers in FWA and orange could join teh Farmer network - all the engineered and other random people would just be left out in the cold -- since they dont want to adhere to the 'game developers ' ideas on how to 'properly play' then they should be left out of the better / more fair war network...

Clans in the farm wars adhere to strict guidelines on how to upgrade... same goes for many un official clan networks. So many of them exist that you could easily create two giant networks in game that can safely and uniquely match clans within network to assure them of a higher quality match.

As far as this topic goes; I will need to see more wars, more results and keep reading replies for a few weeks before I can give any real feedback... even then we're all still guessing.. and its hard to give supercell helpful feedback if we dont even know what we're looking at to begin with, how its supposed to work -- and if we dont know how it is designed to work we'll never know if it is REALLY working...

This could be part of their smoke and mirrors effect... hiding the fact that what they intended to do is a failure.. I guess if their developers cant make it happen then the investors may not be as impressed and it could hurt their bottom line... so I'd expect we will never be told any intricate details by the powers that be... we'll have to rely on testing, trial and error - experiments and game /server info dumps that are analyzed by our programming/coding gurus...

Keep the replies rolling in; I'm enjoying the info your all sharing. Thanks.

[Vikingchief]

Thanks for the info Blombardo, very interesting.

[SuperStorm103]

We have searching for over a ridiculous 20hrs. NO enemy has matched. Great new MM system.

i couldn't fine an opponent... war search aborted after 20hrs or so... i restarted.... will keep update

NOPE... i aborted after 4hrs... i checked with a few other all-engineered clans i know, and it's all the same : no clan found an opponent... this is true from 30vs30 up... so we are about to try the 20vs20 range... same formation : one heavy defence village and rest defenceless....

24 hours looking for a rival. how much time more? we want guild wars

Fix your lineups! . Our 25 vs 25 took 20 minutes, even match!

[iBork]

4 hours to do a search?! Wahaaaaaaa! I have seen some people reporting that it's taking up to 20 hours for them!!!

Well, there's your answer to the question, "What does SC consider to be engineered." If the new MM is separating the two, and it's taking that long for guys that have extreme engineered rosters to search for a match, one can see that that group, because there are less of them, that THAT is what SC considers as engineering. Right or wrong, that is what SC seems to think.

On a side note, SC said they were going to separate the two, they never said they were going to fix the WM. :::

[Luthore]

I'm not flaming here when I ask this but does this not make wars really boring for you all? I usually find the best wars are the ones where it can swing either way and its on a knife edge and everyones watching the last attack to either celebrate or commiserate and they swing both ways and they are always the best IMO.

Sad to say these wars below th11 are done. Too many less skilled clans need to exploit their way to a tie at worst.

Nothing beat a back and fourth slug out fest where clans had aces that closed out tight games. Where one Miss meant losing the war. Oh the pressure!

Wars where smaller accounts became a hero by saving the day after hitting up to pull a great 3 star out of the flames.

Wars whwre 10 players watched every late attack because they meant something.

Now, we have to give the kids their participation trophies so they feel better by allowing the game to become a skillless shell of its former shelf.

I've kinda said it before and I'll rephrase. These baby 11's are destroying th10 and under clan wars.

[MossackFonseca]

Also perhaps, engineers have no need to pound their chests, express moral superiority, and explain to the lesser masses how the game is supposed to be played.

Or.


what tank said.

Engineers don't (usually) get ♥♥♥♥♥♥ when they get beat on prep day, b/c they were trying the same thing. I hope that casual engineering gets killed off by the new mm. Really serious, hardcore engineering? As long as they match other engineers I don't care about them, except when they come on here to brag about it and stroke their own egos I suppose.

[MossackFonseca]

As I said it might be incorrect. I was using the old tables for the older matchmaker. I couldn't verify if the offensive weights have changed or not in the new matchmaker, but I did verify the defensive weights and they remain the same as before.


We have 11 .5s (2 8.5s rest 9.5s). They don't have any new bases at all, remember I sorted the weights so the offensive weights are not on their per map positions. They have 2 low defense th11s on positions #18 and #19, both with maxed th11 laloon and teen royals including gw with ability. They have 3 near maxed th10s on top and 1 9.5. The rest of their bases are not .5s or engineered in any way.

Edited to add: If my offense weight calculations are anywhere correct, then it seems the 2 clans have extremely similar offense to defense ratio, it is 1.1839 for them and 1.1922 for us. We are currently in the process of adding defensive weight to bottom-mid bases in order to balance the clan out, but since we have a deficit of 129 total defensive weight, it might take some time before I can test that.

Admittedly it's a tiny sample thus far, but it looks like mild to somewhat engineered clans might have to make a decision with this mm...get very heavily engineered, or even out bases.

[MossackFonseca]

That's the fallacy - comparing total weights is almost completely meaningless. If may be what SC are doing - and if so it is much of the problem.

never saw an answer from dorsan on recent war record for his clan vs opponents...I wouldn't be surprised to hear that his clan has an excellent recent war record, however. I just keep seeing this time, after time, after time...once you win 5, 10, 15 in a row, you start matching other clans with similar records a LOT. It's not 100%, and sometimes you'll get the odd easy match here and there, but the more you win the more you face opponents who also win very often.