Clan War Matchmaking Improvements

[AngelDevil212]

Well my clan is almost dead after too many war fail (post Update) so we decide to move our most active players to a friend clan and play a 50vs war. We r an average clan, with what we called some lucky 3 stars attacks. only 5 mature th11, 3 with eagle, some max th10 and 9. we give opportunity to everyone on the clan to play and participate. Everybody was exciting until the crazy fast 2 minutes war search end.
We facing 16 Max th11, only 4 with eagles the rest max defense offense, heroes and walls.with no eagle and some without infernos. MAX DEFENSE TH11. after that some max th10 and lots of max th9 with max heroes, his last 7 are th3 with only 1 cannon and cc.
Is a level 15 clan from Iran. so this guys know how to play the matchmanig system, u guys need to see his bases. they r not defenseless they r heavy engineer defense crazy max walls and defenses,No INFERNOS OR EAGLE.

Right now war going 144/ 121. and we still waiting for our first perfect 50vs 150 stars, to bad we r on the wrong side .
but my question is how 7 th3 can hide so crazy defense and heroes. we dont have advantange in any place even our lower guys r th7/8/6 on different stages of development. we only have 2 max th9 vs 12 or more. the win was decide by supercell in 2 minutes, no skill need.
The clan name is ATTACKESTAN from Iran LVL 15, no shaming on that, we lost vs a Best Defenses and Offense . they work hard and paid off.
shaming on supercell to the MM.

[GrapeApeAffe]

Well i can honestly say I think SC is trying to improve but they need to seriously make some more adjustments

I always seem to come back to my same feeling when it comes to the SC team, since I'm a hardware/software engineer myself.

If I was to send my customer a chip that did exactly the opposite of what I said it would do, my boss wouldn't just say, "well keep making adjustments until you get it right" I would be out of a job, plain and simple.


I'm not picking on you but I keep hearing this sentiment for SC to keep making adjustments. Frankly, SC should drop everything else they are doing and FIX the MM now!

[Lunaticfringe]

Just as I predicted
They came in at the last and dragon barfed.
It doesn't matter that a crew with skill was able to successfully attack higher ths -- engineers just dragon barf on lower ths
I'm getting beyond ticked now

Yup, that's a typical, laughable, scenario. It's often/overwhelmingly (1) LaLoon spam, (2) Mass Drags or (3) Mass miners. Easy attacks by players that can't really attack well, so they attempt to manipulate war weight to try and find an enemy clan to bully attack often. Pretty pathetic....

For example, typical LaLoon spam by a less-skilled player:

Step 1: Drop ~4 loons, haste into certain defense, pull CC
Step 2: Kill CC, often by dropping BK first to agro CC, then AQ to kill, or just use poison and various troops
Step 3: Drop ~all loons on one side of the base, like the old Chinese wall hog releases at TH8
Step 4: Drop hounds into ADs
Step 5: Paint base with rage/haste
Step 6: Pray

Against certain bases, this can be an effective strategy, even considering equal TH, but that isn't what is happening here. These clans/players are executing bully attacks and force the attack to just about any of your TH-1 (or even TH-2) bases. And since they are bully attacks, with upgraded troops/spells/whatever, they can still have some consistent success

It's pathetic

Funnier still is watching these players whiff sometimes. It's truly head-shaking....

the key is non rushed bases ranging from th11-7 and no .5s and you'll find fair wars almost every time. on a 10 streak and soon to be 11 under new matchmaking

I raise an eyebrow at this. I've seen plenty of match-ups by non-rushed clans that don't look reasonable, the most recent being CastNBlast, who recently uploaded a really strange, engineered, match-up

I do fully believe that the 250+ posts/threads about seemingly-lopsided matchups are actually lopsided.
Or, even if they're slightly exaggerated... I do believe they're representative of real, actual, lopsided matches that do occur.

Huh?

What does that mean?

Any MM with a reasonable amount of variation in order to match hundreds of thousands of wars is going to have some that are lopsided. It's statistically impossible not to. But I don't think this makes the MM terrible. At worst, I think it makes the MM "slightly annoying every now and then."

No, you are really starting to lose me here.

If Dorsan's work is any indicator (approaching 2/3rd of war clans are "engineered"), that likely needs to change and about the best way to change that is by removing the advantage and changing the MM.

Signs that the MM is actually broken:
-Losing wars 50% of the time due to a seemingly lopsided match. All the time. Not your last 4 wars. Getting beat by 3+ stars every time. You. Your brother's clan. Your buddy's clan. And most clans on the forums too.

No, totally incorrect. Winning or losing has ~nothing to do with it.

Attacking skill can make up for said deficit, but that sure as heck doesn't make it right

-The game is actually dead because no one is playing it. Really, the war MM is a major function of this game. If it really was terrible, most people would just wander off and find something more fun/entertaining to do. And the game would die. Game's not dead, not even close. Therefore, MM is not terrible.

Wow, I haven't seen a non-sequitur logical fallacy this bad in quite sometime.

The game most certainly can still exist, yet with a faulty MM.

Signs that do not indicate that the MM is broken:
-Your last war was seemingly lopsided
-Your last 4 wars were seemingly lopsided
-You won 5+ in a row, but then lost to an engineering clan
-17 people left your clan because "the MM is terrible!"
-You lose your wars by 1 star
-You really, really wanted to win, but you didn't
-The TH levels really are lopsided, and you have screenshots to prove it, but their troop levels aren't actually engineered... their bases are more rushed (low level troops, even though they have high THs).
-You lost to an obviously, truly engineered clan... but they actually lost their last 5+ matches in their war log

I disagree with many you list above and literally laughed out loud at, "The TH levels really are lopsided, and you have screenshots to prove it, but their troop levels aren't actually engineered." Yeah, right....

There's really just so much going on with the MM (and I haven't even gotten into everything in this long post) and the player base is still going so strong... I have a really hard time agreeing with any "the MM is terrible!" hype.

This is basically the same, terrible, logical fallacy you stated above

But, yes, lopsided matches do exist.
In fact, I think they have to exist. I think they're just a statistical requirement of any decent MM.

I don't know about, "have to exist," but I fail to rationalize why SC shouldn't just bite the damn bullet and significantly weight tax TH that have a large disparity between offense vs defense.

As soon as someone unlocks a troop/defense/whatever that is specific to that TH only, they should carry massive weight, regardless of how lopsided the base actually is

Actually, a "perfect MM" would have everyone losing (and winning) exactly 50% of the time. Otherwise you're either losing to those stronger than you... or beating up on those weaker than you.
The MM has (and still does) take more into account than just defense and offense. It takes into account recent war record and attempts to match "skill" in some fashion as well.

Huh??

How can that possibly make any sense?

So, if you are, say, "the best," (take Dark Looters as an example), how exactly should they be losing 50% of the time?

The MM cheat and give them unfair match-ups? Is that your theory??

[alpal]

SC makes a lot of money from people engineering bases, and probably won't end them all together for this very reason (who can blame them?). The problem that accompanies engineered bases is that maxers get discouraged and sometimes leave the game because of consistent, terrible war matchups.

Their best hope is to find a balance of coexistence between traditional maxers and extreme engineers, so that both sides get what they want.

This seems very tricky to accomplish, because what maxers want are fair matchups, and engineers want lopsided matchups where they have the advantage.

SC's current matchmaking goal (to match engineers with other engineers) doesn't give this group what they want...and they curiously have not figured out how to do it yet...hmm I wonder why...

[krayj]

Since the supposed matchmaking changes...we have experienced almost entirely lopsided wars. They tend to fall into two categories:

1. Wars where our top offenses (TH9) must beat a bunch of max enemy TH9s (so we could theoretically perfect the enemy if we are both skilled (which we are) and lucky (which we sometimes aren't) vs enemies with single troop path developed TH11s where the enemy has a 1 or 2 town hall dip to defeat all our bases and we must rely on the enemy failing to pull off a TH11 dip attack on a TH9 defenses for us to even have a chance at winning.

2. Wars where the enemy has found a way to include a strong defense base beyond the capabilities of all our offenses by loading the bottom of their map up with light or new accounts. Latest example is TH9s are our top bases (and offense), but we were matched against an enemy with a mid TH10 as their top guy (defensively maxed TH9 with the new xbow, L2 infernos, extra walls, extra defenses all leveled up to TH9/TH10 levels - this guy's war weight was 84k). Our TH9s were lucky to even 2 star this enemy, but he had no problem erasing our #1 and #2 off the map, the rest of the enemy TH9s had no problems with our lighter TH9s. Sure, we smoked their easy bases down low, but it wasn't fair for our offenses up top.

Our past few wars we decided to try warring without any .5s or any other bases that could be remotely considered engineered... and we are still matching these lopsided wars against engineers.

We want fair matchmaking.... but even more important: we want SuperCell to TELL US WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO GET FAIR MATCHES. We'll do it. Whatever it takes. We don't want an advantage, we don't want a disadvantage. We just want a fair match and we're willing to do whatever it takes. We just want to know what that is.

[PapaBear38]

Leader of a clan of 50, but it's a lot less active. Gem buyers stopped buying. Wars down from continuous to 3 in the last 4 weeks. All 3 have been lopsided. Current war:

Us:
2 th 11
2 th 10
12 th 9 (several new th9)

Them
3 th 11
5 th 10
6 th 9

Just like all the other posts in this thread, even though we didn't have any engineered accounts, they have 3. If they're any good, we're toast.

[SoldierNumber2178281828]

SC makes a lot of money from people engineering bases, and probably won't end them all together for this very reason (who can blame them?). The problem that accompanies engineered bases is that maxers get discouraged and sometimes leave the game because of consistent, terrible war matchups.

Their best hope is to find a balance of coexistence between traditional maxers and extreme engineers, so that both sides get what they want.

This seems very tricky to accomplish, because what maxers want are fair matchups, and engineers want lopsided matchups where they have the advantage.

SC's current matchmaking goal (to match engineers with other engineers) doesn't give this group what they want...and they curiously have not figured out how to do it yet...hmm I wonder why...

It's easier to engineer a base than to max it. Not sure why you think engineering bases are spending money.

[cjsteve]

Well my clan is almost dead after too many war fail (post Update) so we decide to move our most active players to a friend clan and play a 50vs war. We r an average clan, with what we called some lucky 3 stars attacks. only 5 mature th11, 3 with eagle, some max th10 and 9. we give opportunity to everyone on the clan to play and participate. Everybody was exciting until the crazy fast 2 minutes war search end.
We facing 16 Max th11, only 4 with eagles the rest max defense offense, heroes and walls.with no eagle and some without infernos. MAX DEFENSE TH11. after that some max th10 and lots of max th9 with max heroes, his last 7 are th3 with only 1 cannon and cc.
Is a level 15 clan from Iran. so this guys know how to play the matchmanig system, u guys need to see his bases. they r not defenseless they r heavy engineer defense crazy max walls and defenses,No INFERNOS OR EAGLE.

Right now war going 144/ 121. and we still waiting for our first perfect 50vs 150 stars, to bad we r on the wrong side .
but my question is how 7 th3 can hide so crazy defense and heroes. we dont have advantange in any place even our lower guys r th7/8/6 on different stages of development. we only have 2 max th9 vs 12 or more. the win was decide by supercell in 2 minutes, no skill need.
The clan name is ATTACKESTAN from Iran LVL 15, no shaming on that, we lost vs a Best Defenses and Offense . they work hard and paid off.
shaming on supercell to the MM.

Same story here my clan is half dead lost half of the players over the last few months they just quit playing because the game is just not fun anymore and so imbalanced. Current matchup they are 401-116 we are 211-137. At least half of that 137 is losses to engi and that other problem that existed in the past. Its a guess but im assume that other clan probably ran xxxx in the past and now engineer hence that stellar war record. They have several more 11 attacks than we do so we already know the outcome before it started. Won't be long before we hand in the towel like so many other good clans. Just wish they would try but my experience tells me it will be far too late. They spent all their time creating a Builders Village when they should have been fixing mm oh and also Legends which I've also quit pushing because it's worthless

[Palladin02]

Well, we have now lost 4 matches in a row 10 vs 10 and two of our top members left. So much for better matchmaking.

[Chang405]

We want fair matchmaking.... but even more important: we want SuperCell to TELL US WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO GET FAIR MATCHES. We'll do it. Whatever it takes. We don't want an advantage, we don't want a disadvantage. We just want a fair match and we're willing to do whatever it takes. We just want to know what that is.

Consistent matches where neither side has an advantage will never exist with the current matchmaker. Its like searching for the Holy Grail, won't happen.

It's easier to engineer a base than to max it. Not sure why you think engineering bases are spending money.

I have both type of bases and both are equally easy. But I can tell you that playing 4 bases has made me spend more money (compared to when I had just one base). I use gems to speed up hero development.