Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 30 of 30

Thread: This is why you shouldn't use the destroy button on npc bases...

  1. #21
    Forum Hero Lloopy14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Cymru!
    Posts
    7,784
    Quote Originally Posted by megacrab View Post
    And what does that do? Guarantees that you'll get crystals when you hit those NPCs later? Or just means that all NPCs generated in that span will have the same stone rewards, whether that's 2 crystals or 2 shards or 1 frag or whatever?
    Ihavent noticed it with fragments and shards ... but the crystal drop is determined when that base spawns on your map. Which, i understood from various threads isnt the same time as the attack log but when you logged in (view map?) . Logging in during the day means that, if you dud get a crystal run it would be rather short
    Main. HQ22 TD 30% 13% TD 13% 13% GBE: 39%; 17%; 17%; 17 %; 17%. 17%
    HQ19: GBE 41%; 17%; 16%; 16% ; RR 45%; PSC 74%TH27% TD 25%; 13%
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinqing View Post
    "High level players" isn't an elite cult, it's a stage in the game that people reach, high vp, high ops, any of those or more.





  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by facescraper View Post
    Yes lmao... seen you on the Aussie crab lb too 😉
    Where did you guys finish Aussie LB last crab?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by facescraper View Post
    This is where the stone drop maths fails. I got 9 crystals here. That is equivalent to 3087 frags or using destroy on 1029 bases, lol. I know what I will be doing... and it won't be using "destroy".

    It doesn't necessarily mean you come out ahead. If the NPCs spawned all generate the same rewards, then those can be both artificially high (all crystals) and artificially low (all ~1 frag, see Fritzelly above). Sometimes you'll get one, sometimes the other. The rewards are still randomly generated with the same distribution, just clumped together. It feels like you're getting more when the crystals all come at once, but averaged over a month it could be the same result as before.

    Of course an adaptive strategy can potentially come out ahead of either all raid or all destroy. Then you're no longer taking separate independent events, but "peeking" one NPC to see if the random reward beats the small fixed reward, then adapting your behavior on the basis that all other NPCs will give the same reward. That raises the floor a bit (minimum stone haul) but not the ceiling (max crystal haul).

    The question is, does the "crystal myth" effect alter the overall stone distribution (frags, shards, crystals) over time? Or does it simply clump the rewards together, giving more crystals at certain times, but also more droughts at others? For this we need a large data sample, like 500 or more NPC raids.

    We already have an example of clumping in the game: trader crates. These come in a defined sequence, with 8-token crates immediately following 4-token crates but lots of low 1- and 2-token crates in between. The long term average is still 1.7 tokens per crate, far closer to the low end crate rewards than the high end.
    Last edited by megacrab; 1 Week Ago at 01:54 AM.
    HQ 22 Lvl 64 - VP 665 - GBE 40 17 16 16 RR 44 - TD 29 12 TH 32 - BD 34 BH 28

  4. #24
    ★★★ Champion
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    10,151
    Quote Originally Posted by megacrab View Post
    It doesn't necessarily mean you come out ahead. If the NPCs spawned all generate the same rewards, then those can be both artificially high (all crystals) and artificially low (~1 frag, see Fritzelly above). Sometimes you'll get one, sometimes the other. The rewards are still randomly generated with the same distribution, just clumped together. It feels like you're getting more when the crystals all come at once, but averaged over a month it could be the same result as before.

    Of course an adaptive strategy can potentially come out ahead of either all raid or all destroy. Then you're no longer taking separate independent events, but "peeking" one NPC to see if the random reward beats the small fixed reward, then adapting your behavior on the basis that all other NPCs will give the same reward. That raises the floor a bit (minimum stone haul) but not the ceiling (max crystal haul).

    The question is, does the "crystal myth" effect alter the over stone distribution over time? Or does it simply clump the rewards together, giving more crystals at certain times, but also more droughts at others? For this we need a large data sample, like 500 or more NPC raids.

    We already have an example of clumping in the game: trader crates. They come in a defined sequence, with 8-token crates immediately following 4-token crates but lots of low 1- and 2-token crates in between. The long term average is still 1.7 tokens per crate, far closer to the low end crate rewards than the high end.
    Lets compare npc stone drops over a week. I use a 73% psc, it looks like you don't have a psc. You would be surprised by how many stones and how often these crystal runs occur on both my accounts...

    I know you love maths and you said in another thread the guaranteed 3 stones is better when looking at the maths but all you need is a random shard and crystal here and there to make the destroy button less appealing for someone concerned about stones and pp. True maths on the matter really needs to take into account the value of stones higher than frags. If the stone drops for using destroy were random your maths would work. But they are set as frags. 1 crystals is worth 49 frags. Like I said earlier, that small run of crystals was equivalent to destroying 147 bases for the same stone rewards using "destroy". You still seem to think over time I would be better off using destroy for some reason. I can only imagine the amount of stones i would make attacking 147 bases normally... would be mind boggling.
    Last edited by facescraper; 1 Week Ago at 02:51 AM. Reason: bad maths

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by facescraper View Post
    Lets compare npc stone drops over a week. I use a 73% psc, it looks like you don't have a psc. You would be surprised by how many stones and how often these crystal runs occur on both my accounts...
    Sure, more data always helps.


    Quote Originally Posted by facescraper View Post
    I know you love maths and you said in another thread the guaranteed 3 stones is better when looking at the maths but all you need is a random shard and crystal here and there to make the destroy button less appealing for someone concerned about stones and pp.

    Not without "crystal myth" (note: for some reason I always want to call it "crystal meth" ). A random crystal every 3% of drops and a random shard every 12% of drops works out to 3.160 fragments per stone drop. That's irrespective of the number of stones generated. If you average less than 1 drop per base, then those occasional crystals and shards won't come out ahead. It's pretty close with no PSC though.

    We still don't know for sure if those 85/12/3 percentages SC gave us are accurate. The data will tell us.


    Quote Originally Posted by facescraper View Post
    True maths on the matter really needs to take into account the value of stones higher than frags. If the stone drops for using destroy were random your maths would work. But they are set as frags. 1 crystals is worth 343 frags.

    My math does account for shards and crystals. And a crystal is worth 49 frags, not 343. You're off by a factor of 7. You're counting how many frags to make an MP, not to make a crystal.


    Quote Originally Posted by facescraper View Post
    Like I said earlier, that small run of crystals was equivalent to destroying 1029 bases for the same stone rewards using "destroy". You still seem to think over time I would be better off using destroy for some reason. I can only imagine the amount of stones i would make attacking 1029 bases normally... would be mind boggling.

    It's 147 bases not 1029. And I did not say you would be better off using destroy on those 7 bases (you only showed the first 6 NPCs in the video. What happened to the seventh, carrot feeder? no crystal there?). Of course the crystal rewards are better on a small handpicked sample. It has to be balanced against all the bases that yield no crystals or shards. Long term average is what matters.

    What I said was, if you raid a large number of bases over time, and if the crystal runs do not increase the overall frequency of crystal drops (i.e. 3% of the time), and if you don't have PSC, then Destroy can come out ahead. The data is yet to come in. My point is that either outcome is possible. The math doesn't say destroy is better period. It says destroy is better under those conditions.

    Think of it this way: if you do two NPC clearing runs a day and get crystals from every NPC in a run 2 times a month, that's 3% of your stone drops. Or, if you get crystals from half your NPCs once a week, same result. In that case, you're no better off than if there were no crystal runs and every NPC dropped a crystal on its own (3% chance per SC). Which would mean that crystal runs, while real, do not alter the overall distribution of stones. Things are just clumped together more. So it's possible there's no net gain.

    Now I suspect that whatever is causing these "crystal runs" is altering the stone distribution, making crystals more frequent than otherwise. I will not be surprised in the least if the data shows that you come out ahead. But until the data comes in, I can't assume that things are broken.

    tl;dr - I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying you could be wrong. Or you could be right. Math and data are the only way to know for certain what's going on. Anything else is guesswork.
    Last edited by megacrab; 1 Week Ago at 02:40 AM.
    HQ 22 Lvl 64 - VP 665 - GBE 40 17 16 16 RR 44 - TD 29 12 TH 32 - BD 34 BH 28

  6. #26
    ★★★ Champion
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    10,151
    Yeah I was thinking 7 x 7 x 7 lol. Ok I will be clearing map later tonight. I haven't logged onto main account since this morning so will record what i grab from the npc.

  7. #27
    Forum Hero Lloopy14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Cymru!
    Posts
    7,784
    I just had a run of 4 on my mini, 74% psc
    Main. HQ22 TD 30% 13% TD 13% 13% GBE: 39%; 17%; 17%; 17 %; 17%. 17%
    HQ19: GBE 41%; 17%; 16%; 16% ; RR 45%; PSC 74%TH27% TD 25%; 13%
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinqing View Post
    "High level players" isn't an elite cult, it's a stage in the game that people reach, high vp, high ops, any of those or more.





  8. #28
    Centennial Club
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    106
    I hAve a 66% PSC, and my run this morning clearing 8 black guard bases dropped 12 fragments, 5 shards, and 6 crystals. I make about 28 PP a week clearing my BG bases every morning.

  9. #29
    I've had a perfect psc in storage for ages but am really reluctant to change any of my statues as I just beat many PVP and have an RR that I think I still need as my base isn't maxed yet and gold is too scarce bug it sounds like they really do produce a lot of powders. If it gave me 3 stones a day more it could be worth it as I can use a bit of boost to negate the drop in probably TD or GBE. Either one. Is it worth 3 extra stones a day?

  10. #30
    Senior Member Blackguardtf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Still On Earth
    Posts
    329
    On destroying i also think is less intel. But who cares of intel ? Is just a tf problem I use destroy, im sick of those npc bases. Should be an option to use autodestroy, not to push button everytime. maybe supercell will show up a subscripiton for this option
    I love all the bugs, awesome game

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: March 5th, 2017, 07:44 PM
  2. Spells shouldn't destroy a crown or king tower.
    By Zaneee in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: November 26th, 2016, 01:14 PM
  3. earthquake spell shouldn't destroy any walls
    By JuanFerMaster in forum Ideas & Feature Requests
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: May 11th, 2016, 07:49 AM
  4. New buildings shouldn't be usable on war bases
    By HappyDragon in forum General
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: April 27th, 2016, 03:12 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •