Rusher's defense log

[evanmaximus22]

Hey Sin,

As a leader with a variety of TH's upgrading at different paces. Plus an active war schedule I'm having a hard time advising them.

Clan is small 30ish and 4 plus years. We all started when engineering/ lopsided bases only existed as a "rushed base" which brought little advantage to the game or war?

I became a maxer type player because I followed the Load Screen message "Building strong defense is as important as aggressive attacking"...remember that one?

Now we've had a fundamental shift in that philosophy being confirmed by the maxer vs. engineering camps. And the obvious split on the war roster front.

I see that your experience and message relates to the economic benefits and time savings but also plays into the hands of those wanting to focus on offence rather than defense to gain the "advantage" in wars as well.

Do you touch on that in any of your links?

As a leader I'm feeling forced (not a bad thing) to look at all aspects/options of the game for both upgrading and war.

If you can't beat them (every 4 wars) maybe it's time to join them.

Good to see you back as well.

Cheers,
CD

[wilsonatore]

If you rush, listen to Sin and stay low. As a maxer I can tell you I built my base hitting higher rushed ths in the higher leagues. Just like the rusher depends on dead bases, I preyed on bigger rushers, doing fewer attacks as well. If this is your path, stay low with the little fishes.

[kevs926]

If you can get in, let's say, 5 attacks each day, and don't have 10-20 min each raid to next is it better to use BARCH for dead bases in lower leagues or to use a "war army" in higher leagues to farm the league bonus (around 10 next to find a suitable base)?

i'm having trouble with this actually. include the increase in cloud time, i actually find myself having to search longer to find a suitable base. im just really looking for a 450k/450k/3500 base but i find it pretty rare too. It was faster doing it back at c1.

maybe champs 1 is still a bad place to farm high up. ill try to go up a bit more around 4500 or something. I started noticing it once i reach 3500 cups. Loot is pretty bad and the cup offers are also bad. i want to go up faster so i can actually figure this out.

[UCTeeth]

SINOFDUSK! You're still going strong in this game I see? Glad to see you as active as ever. Im sure by now you must be an MD right? I just opened clash of clans again for the first time in a while about 1 week ago. I see alot has changed but fundamentals are still the same

[HOUNDSTER]

The entire point of this thread is to show that defense is pointless. So there is no shame in rushing defenses as long as you know what you're doing

I agree with you on this. I never check my defense logs and always assume I will be 3 starred for max loot anyways. The only point I will raise though, is that you need just enough defenses to force the attacker to use 30% troops so that you at least get your shield... But then again, I mean.. I concur with you that there are alot of people that don't bother thinking at all. I have a defenseless mini that I enjoy watching logs and logs of attackers deploying full armies on that poor level 1 cannon... and giving me a shield

[SinOfDusk]

I think that's the point, and shows that the defense log is more dependent upon league (and available loot) than it does on "rushing is AWESOME!!"

A rushed base in Champs gets 100% crushed every time. My near-maxed base in T2 defends quite well most of the time. ANY th11 base in low crystal, let alone one with lvl12 walls and lvl40+ heroes like the OP's, defends well all the time. League > "rushing is awesome."

Strange, my maxed TH11 in T2 doesn't defend well at all. I don't see percentage, but I see that I lose 270k+ gold per raid (avg 450k+ total loot, and I'm not counting collector loot I lose which makes it up to 1mil+ total loot). My rushed base also loses around the same amount, so it means that I'm

Also, read:
https://clashguideswithdusk.wordpres...ts-of-defense/

If you do not bother to read, don't bother to reply. As I said in that post, league is far more important. But the key thing here is, rushers can benefit more from being in low leagues because we are not scared of getting sub-30%. It means that I can save 500-800mil on loot wasted on upgrading defense just by being in a lower league.

So you wasted 500-800mil gold on defense, just to get the same or worse defensive capabilities and loot retention. Good way of spending your gold

Isn't staying in the best league part of any strategy?
Master loot is the easiest. My TH11 is there too and it's everything but rushed
I'd sure not go up in leagues where loot is harder to get AND I'll also get smashed on def

Exactly, even my mid TH11 which I need to farm loot on, cannot survive in champs 1-2. Loot is terrible and I get smashed on defense, losing much more loot than my rushed TH11 in masters

If you can get in, let's say, 5 attacks each day, and don't have 10-20 min each raid to next is it better to use BARCH for dead bases in lower leagues or to use a "war army" in higher leagues to farm the league bonus (around 10 next to find a suitable base)?

5 attacks per day in high leagues, because you need to wait for heroes. If you compare it like that, you can do 10 attacks in low leagues vs 5 attacks in higher leagues. No matter the army comp, lower league wins because you can make twice as many raids as being in higher leagues.

My playstyle is very easy actually, I raid back-to-back when I'm free for 1-3 hrs per day, then I open the game throughout the day and raid twice every time I open the game. I use laloon during these times and I'm able to make 10-20 raids like that. Lower league wins because of this flexibility.

There are a few types of busy, and nearly all of them benefit from

1) Only able to open the game few hours per day (busy in work then only few hours free after work) - boosted barch wins because of the gem savings (boosted barch = 30 gems, boosted titans farming = 50+ gems)
2) My type of busy
3) Able to open the game once every hour or so - then mid-league (Masters for TH10/11) laloon wins because you can raid twice every time you open the game

The key component to being lighter on defenses is that you must reliably get a shield. If you don't, then the loot loss can be larger. That said, defenseless accounts get a shield a surprising amount of time.

Rushers who work on defenses at all (say anything that takes a day of builder or less) are fine. I made that cutoff up, it's one I feel safe saying, you probably can get away with less initially.

Definitely, as long as you built all defenses up to TH8, even at lvl1, you'll always get a shield. The problem here lies with maxers, I can drop to very low leagues as a rushed TH11 and reliably obtain a shield. A maxer however, will get a few outcomes:

1) Trophy dropped to 2800-3000+ cups (yes, I can get 10 cup droppers per night) then get wrecked on defense
-Yesterday, my mid TH11 just got trophy dropped from 2600 to 3000 and got hit for 90+% by a Champs 2 player

2) Storages get milked. People don't care in lower leagues, these are good players but they reside lower for efficient raids. Just drop some loons +/- goblins and steal 100-300k total loot

3) After getting milked for few raids, all your traps and CC are tripped and you get full raided and lose most of your loot

4) Get collector raided. Since you are not hit for hours, you can get hit and lose your collector loot.

Rushers have no worries because I am hit very quickly and I don't lose much anyways

try above 3500
at 2000-2600 nothing much from attackers, every 5 out of 10 attacks on me will be defence wins here

Why should I? Loot is terrible there, and even my mid TH11 is crushed in that league. No point in doing that

[Vallhala]

The only reason your defence log is ok is that you are as low on trophies as you are. If you were higher it would look a lot worse

[SinOfDusk]

Hey Sin,

As a leader with a variety of TH's upgrading at different paces. Plus an active war schedule I'm having a hard time advising them.

Clan is small 30ish and 4 plus years. We all started when engineering/ lopsided bases only existed as a "rushed base" which brought little advantage to the game or war?

I became a maxer type player because I followed the Load Screen message "Building strong defense is as important as aggressive attacking"...remember that one?

Now we've had a fundamental shift in that philosophy being confirmed by the maxer vs. engineering camps. And the obvious split on the war roster front.

I see that your experience and message relates to the economic benefits and time savings but also plays into the hands of those wanting to focus on offence rather than defense to gain the "advantage" in wars as well.

Do you touch on that in any of your links?

As a leader I'm feeling forced (not a bad thing) to look at all aspects/options of the game for both upgrading and war.

If you can't beat them (every 4 wars) maybe it's time to join them.

Good to see you back as well.

Cheers,
CD

I used to attempt to make engineering posts 2 years ago but the meta and MM changes all the time, so I don't make any such posts anymore. Be aware that if you want to engineer, your entire clan has to commit to it, 1-2 engineered bases will bring more harm and good. And TH x.5 is dead now, don't bother. But TH x.25 (rushed + no xbow/IT/EA) is still quite good

If you rush, listen to Sin and stay low. As a maxer I can tell you I built my base hitting higher rushed ths in the higher leagues. Just like the rusher depends on dead bases, I preyed on bigger rushers, doing fewer attacks as well. If this is your path, stay low with the little fishes.

You see? Some how being a rusher, I'm less of a player. My experience in champs and titans say differently, just look at the quote and my reply below:

i'm having trouble with this actually. include the increase in cloud time, i actually find myself having to search longer to find a suitable base. im just really looking for a 450k/450k/3500 base but i find it pretty rare too. It was faster doing it back at c1.

maybe champs 1 is still a bad place to farm high up. ill try to go up a bit more around 4500 or something. I started noticing it once i reach 3500 cups. Loot is pretty bad and the cup offers are also bad. i want to go up faster so i can actually figure this out.

Exactly. That's the experience I get with my mid TH11 as well. I was easily farming 7mil/5mil per day in Masters. And since I maxed my 45/45/20 royals, I wanted to try Champs and titans (my experience with my main maxed TH11 is terrible too but I wanted to give it a spin)

At mid-high champs, the 450/450/3k bases disappear and I'm forced to next 10-20 min just to find a worthwhile base to attack. The explanation is simple though, I was farming 500/500/4k per raid in M2 from premmies or other rushed bases (bonus makes it 630/630/4.7k) so I expect to find at least 400k bases for my time in Champs to be worthwhile (add bonus = 670/670k) but all the bases I find are 200k only which makes it far worse.

Coupled with defensive losses, I am only able to farm 3-4mil per day in Champs. After 2 days, I quit and dropped all the way to Crystal 1, I farmed 8mil gold on that day I droped.

SINOFDUSK! You're still going strong in this game I see? Glad to see you as active as ever. Im sure by now you must be an MD right? I just opened clash of clans again for the first time in a while about 1 week ago. I see alot has changed but fundamentals are still the same

Hey UC! Long time no see! Yup, still going strong and the forums are still the same. I think you'll love the BB, but it isn't as thrilling as CW or a MOBA.

I'm a final year student now (pre-intern), hospital work is really busy. I can still make quite a few raids per day though, and I have a blog now:
clashguideswithdusk.wordpress.com

I agree with you on this. I never check my defense logs and always assume I will be 3 starred for max loot anyways. The only point I will raise though, is that you need just enough defenses to force the attacker to use 30% troops so that you at least get your shield... But then again, I mean.. I concur with you that there are alot of people that don't bother thinking at all. I have a defenseless mini that I enjoy watching logs and logs of attackers deploying full armies on that poor level 1 cannon... and giving me a shield

Yup, you just need enough defenses to gain a shield. In my experience, just building all defenses to TH8 at lvl1 is more than enough for getting a shield. The problem is being a maxer, people can drop the entire army and still <30% your base.

[SinOfDusk]

The only reason your defence log is ok is that you are as low on trophies as you are. If you were higher it would look a lot worse

Any base, even maxed TH11, will look a lot worse in higher leagues. I can show you my maxed TH11 defense log if you want, you'll be surprised with the loot I lose

[drich2015]

...There are so many poor attackers in this game that it is more likely for them to find your base. You want them to find your base and attack you, not scare them away. The stronger looking your base is, the stronger the attacker that will ultimately attack you. The weaker your defense is, the weaker your attackers will be...

Do you think it is necessary to be a rusher for the above quote to happen? I mean I design my base with my TH not centered and only semi-protected. I believe this attracts the poor attackers the same as you are doing, but once they hit my TH it is pretty much game over and loot loss is limited. Wish I had the computer skills to compare a 'maxxed TH with poor design to attract poor attackers' vs 'rushed base with a good design that also attracts poor attackers.'