Stop shouting around to stop engineering, enough!

[MrJackrabbit]

Most competitive leagues & tournaments have systems in place to ensure that competitors are technically on an equal footing. Salary caps in pro sports leagues are designed to prevent big market teams from paying their way to championships. NASCAR imposes restrictions on the cars used in their races.

Engineering is not breaking any of the written rules in the ToS & is currently a winning strategy under the unwritten rules of the MM. That said, there are a lot of compelling reasons for SC to change MM to ensure wars are fought on a technically equal footing where skill in base design & attacking are the determining factor, rather than simplistic lopsiding.

Agreed which is why I like balanced bases vs lopsided. However others would still call it engineering.

[v1j2j3]

Engineer clan has gone too far. We had a couple 20~25 wars (TH8~6) with eng clans with half of eng th 7 or 8s. On the other hand, we have th5 & 6s. They won in the most pathetic way, and this really kills small clans. I have seen players seriously think eng clans is not a problem as long as it's NOT a problem to them.

[nullandvoid]

Have to look at the whole statement. Engineering is a "Tournament legal move" to help win vs making up rules that don't. FYI if you want to add other rules that is what friendly wars are for. Got to read the whole sentence.

No, it's not a "tournament legal move" because no CoC tournaments allow it.

Why? Read the post right before your response:

Most competitive leagues & tournaments have systems in place to ensure that competitors are technically on an equal footing. Salary caps in pro sports leagues are designed to prevent big market teams from paying their way to championships. NASCAR imposes restrictions on the cars used in their races.

Engineering is not breaking any of the written rules in the ToS & is currently a winning strategy under the unwritten rules of the MM. That said, there are a lot of compelling reasons for SC to change MM to ensure wars are fought on a technically equal footing where skill in base design & attacking are the determining factor, rather than simplistic lopsiding.

It is a winning strategy because the MM is unable to flawlessly maintain this system, automatically and across the board.

Fortunately since we now have friendly wars, tournament managers are able to do it by hand.

There are no "unwritten rules" under the MM. You are completely misusing the term.

[v1j2j3]

Have to look at the whole statement. Engineering is a "Tournament legal move" to help win vs making up rules that don't. FYI if you want to add other rules that is what friendly wars are for. Got to read the whole sentence.

I am sure tournament should be FAIRPLAY, so it's not a "Tournament legal move."

[MrJackrabbit]

I am sure tournament should be FAIRPLAY, so it's not a "Tournament legal move."

No, it's not a "tournament legal move" because no CoC tournaments allow it.

Why? Read the post right before your response:



It is a winning strategy because the MM is unable to flawlessly maintain this system, automatically and across the board.

Fortunately since we now have friendly wars, tournament managers are able to do it by hand.

There are no "unwritten rules" under the MM. You are completely misusing the term.

The idea of tournament is clan war. Now CWL has it's own separate rules which if you read further down. BTW every argument you try to use is outlined in the article. To make the conversation work you must use something new not in the article otherwise you are just proving my point.

[nullandvoid]

The idea of tournament is clan war. Now CWL has it's own separate rules which if you read further down. BTW every argument you try to use is outlined in the article. To make the conversation work you must use something new not in the article otherwise you are just proving my point.

Do you even understand what a tournament is?

You can't just use the "idea" of the word in whichever way you see fit.

A single random clan war is not a tournament. CWL, MLCW..those are tournaments.

I'm not proving your point, you are just confused about the definition of a tournament.

Why do you think the author would make specific reference to "tournament" legality if all he meant was the "idea" of an in-game battle mode?

He even gives the example of certain character is not being "tournament-legal" because organizers banned usage of it.

You should use whatever you can to win, but just be aware that the are rare cases where something is so broken that tournament organizers will need to ban to have a functioning game.

Now, do you really think he was talking about an automated game mode like clan wars?

I'm beginning to wonder if you actually read it, or just liked the title and emboldened headings.

[rwelshjr]

Im just soaking it up that some guy posted about engineering to tell guys to not post about engineering and now we have a 7 page thread on engineering..... Priceless.

[ChiefTuk]

The idea of tournament is clan war. Now CWL has it's own separate rules which if you read further down. BTW every argument you try to use is outlined in the article. To make the conversation work you must use something new not in the article otherwise you are just proving my point.

Your article seems to be focused mainly on PvP console fighting games, which are more fixed in terms of what each player is battling with. If one player is aware of something in the game that the other is not, he is free to use that knowledge. But, he doesn't seem to think it's good to allow one player to have an advantage provided by a game design flaw, that no amount of skill can overcome.

It looks like you skimmed over this: "Some games don't hold up to high-level play. That's sloppy design in my opinion. A solid game holds up to experts playing it as hard as they can against each other. That way, the game can be fun for beginners and experts."

Now, maybe you think CoC is fine just as it is. That engineering is just another skill that should be rewarded in the game. The current MM is a design flaw, imo. To use an example from your article, it's like the Akuna character. It so completely undermines the richness of the game, that it should be easy to agree that it's a flaw, not a "bug" that's equally available to everyone. That's what we're really differing about: whether MM exploits are due to sloppy design or a desirable part of the game. Calling people who disagree with you on that 'scrubs' (even indirectly), is really undermining your ability to engage in any positive conversation.

You don't see anyone (hardly anyone) complaining about losing because they never learned attacks besides GoWiPe. There are a large (maybe the majority still, I hope) number of players who don't want wars to revolve around rosters of lopsided bases. We think it's boring & a badly broken model.

Your author goes into some detail in his section about tournaments that are organized contests with agreed upon rules to enforce a fair playing field beyond what the game itself may or may not allow. That's what the CWL is doing. Random spins are not tournament play, so let's not confuse the issue.

[ChiefTuk]

Im just soaking it up that some guy posted about engineering to tell guys to not post about engineering and now we have a 7 page thread on engineering..... Priceless.

Posting a thread to stop complaining about engineering seems to be the best way to start a heated discussion, lol.

[ExpertSAQ]

I want to close this thread. All people are complaining about me that this is a troll thread or something like that. I'm sure that everyone is not liking this thread.

Last time I'm saying that this thread just made to stop those people who don't like engineering.