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Thread: Ladder is Falling Apart Sub-4K

  1. #1
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    Ladder is Falling Apart Sub-4K

    It's time to realize the ladder system below 4K is broken; and it's only going to get worse. We are at the beginning and here's why:

    1. Draft Chest is Creating a Bigger Divide at 4K.

    First, my Personal Best is 3953, though I haven't been within 1 game of that since the update in March. That tidbit will be important for comparison later.

    I took a sample of 100 consecutive matches. My trophy range fluctuated between 3600 and 3900.

    When I reached the 3800 mark, just 200 cups from 4K and draft chest status, 58% of my opponents were 4K+ players that had already secured their Draft Chest (does not include the players with 4K PB and have NOT secured the Draft Chest).

    So why is this a big deal? You're close to 4K, of course you'll see other 4K players.

    The problem is this: every season, 58% of my opponents will gain cards faster than I can. They essentially get a free Magical Chest with double the rares and epics that allows them some sort of control over the cards they get. Meanwhile, these players already have more skill/levels than I do which got them the chest that I cannot acquire. So, in order for me to rise, I have to have a sharp increase in marginal skill or card levels over them. Which is costly and difficult. Many players will never overcome that obstacle.

    Not to mention, only 1 match was at 3900+. The percentage is undoubtedly higher at 3900-3999. And thus a perpetuated problem.

    Why is this happening? Because players hit a peak after acquiring their Draft Chest. Realize they can't climb, and/or get frustrated facing max cards, and they drop. The new MM algorithm (more on that later) doesn't really kick in until 300ish trophies below their PB. So these players are safe in the 3800-3900 range.

    Possible Solution: You must be present to win. If you can't maintain your ladder position; you really don't deserve the reward.

    2. Matchmaking Focus on Personal Best

    Go on. Get your groan out of the way... Better? Good, let's continue.

    In my 100 matches, I broke it out to my trophy range and my opponents average Personal Best:

    3600-3699 : 4008
    3700-3799 : 3978
    3800-3899 : 4048

    As you can see, PB is very much a strong factor. In a 300 trophy swing, my opponents, on average, were the same strength.

    So what's the point of even having trophies? I could put tape over the trophy count on your screen, win/lose a bunch of matches, hand the device back to you, and you would not be able to accurately tell me what trophy range you were in based on your opponents.

    That is a major flaw and not a true ladder system as it should be.

    Sure, it helps combat trophy droppers. But the game doesn't know whether or not it was intentional. And that's the issue; everyone who drops is punished equally. And punishing those that are victim of #1 above is wrong.

    Solution: Remove the Personal Best influence on Matchmaking. OR remove trophy levels all together. What?! You say? Yes. Remove trophy levels. You are placed in a league based on your Personal Best. You only match other players based on their Personal Best. Just like the draft chest system (which is terrible).

    3. Overleveling

    Time to let those last groans out. Take a deep breath, it will be okay.

    First, overleveling is not the fault of the player. They shouldn't be treated any differently for leveling up cards in a more strategic manner. They found a strategy, they followed it, they're rewarded.

    The fault is with SC allowing such a dynamic to be created in the first place.

    This is very similar to the huge "engineered bases" fiasco in Clash of Clans. For those that don't play CoC, it was found that players could strategically upgrade or not upgrade certain structures to give them an advantage in clan war matchups. It was very effective. The problem in CoC was that players that followed traditional wisdom (upgrade all of your base) were suddenly at a huge disadvantage and even banned from clan wars in many clans. Weaker bases were actually the strongest in the game; go figure. And since you couldn't downgrade buildings; the game was essentially broken for them.

    The same is happening in CR. A person that plays around with lots of decks and experiments with the many cards CR has to offer, is now penalized for not sticking with a select 2-4 cards. Those players now have a huge uphill battle to regain that ground by adopting the same strategy. In effect, they are penalized for promoting diversity in the game. Which is SC's goal as well as noticed by balance changes. Thus, non-spender overleveling is an abomination to the game.

    Possible Solution: Add a 24 hour cooldown on cards requested in clan. And, once a card is unlocked, any arena can reward those cards.

    4. Rigged Matchmaking Putting Us Up Against Counter Decks

    The reason for this is simple; just kidding, it's fake news. Now go read 1-3 if you really didn't read it the first time.

  2. #2
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    I completely agree with you. Especially on your 3rd point. I don't overlevel my cards because I try to have them all at the same level. Sticking to one deck is boring to me and it's also risky because your win condition could get nerfed and you then don't have any other options. Meanwhile I have to face overleveling˛ 24/7. So to play on an even field I have to overlevel?

  3. #3
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    Finally, somebody else gets it.

  4. #4
    Forum Veteran Metten98's Avatar
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    The PB matchmaking is killing me. I once went on a random winning streak and got up to 3980. Before that, my average was at about 3800-3850. Because I accidentally won a few (includibg a dropper or two), I suddenly get consistently matched against people above my level. After this winning streak, I struggle maintaining 3800 and often drop to as low as 3500-3600, while before I didn't have this at all.
    To put it simply: one winning streak ruined my chances of staying at the level I used to be at. SC should seriously revert this "feature" as it has too many negative side effects

    Note: all of this was after the last update.

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  5. #5
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    i agree with your points although i'm currently at the 5k mark. you made a good point about the levelling of specific cards. from the start of the game, (i think i started around feb 2016), i made the decision to pick specific cards that i would request because it was the only way i could compete in the later game since i wasn't going to spend money.
    1. Giant (level 11)
    2. Zap (level 13)
    3. Archers (level 12 although i don't use them anymore)
    4. some other random cards that did well against the meta

    so i solely focused on 1-3.
    thank SC for including the draft challenge, double elix, etc and making tournament standards cards to be easily attainable. if that didn't happen, i would have quit a long time ago because playing the same deck or some iteration of it gets extremely boring. but that is the only way to compete at the 5k mark. i would not be here without a maxed giant/zap. my other cards in my deck are bowler (4), tornado (5), lightning (6 - thank you epic sundays), bandit (2) and ice wiz (3). random deck i know, but i like the bandit.

    supercell has allowed it and some people (like myself) took advantage. but what's done is done and at this point, there is no way to change it. its why ladder is no fun for me. very hard for me to compete without a near maxed deck. i tell my friends who play too that are struggling in your range, its impossible without having at least level 12 commons down there. the game has become overly saturated with new players who can drop the cash, and existing players who can't seem to progress further. i said to not care about trophy count anymore as thats what i've come to realize. just fill up your crown chest/chest slots daily and wait do challenges. its truly where people are almost evenly matched (because some players didn't unlock all cards) and the classic is only 10 gems. you typically get that in 2-3 days.

    the biggest thing for people is to not care about their trophy count. you will eventually progress.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbo0 View Post
    I completely agree with you. Especially on your 3rd point. I don't overlevel my cards because I try to have them all at the same level. Sticking to one deck is boring to me and it's also risky because your win condition could get nerfed and you then don't have any other options. Meanwhile I have to face overleveling˛ 24/7. So to play on an even field I have to overlevel?
    Yep. I think the risk of nerf always kept me from focusing only on one card. Never realized that overleveling would negate a nerf this effectively.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metten98 View Post
    The PB matchmaking is killing me. I once went on a random winning streak and got up to 3980. Before that, my average was at about 3800-3850. Because I accidentally won a few (includibg a dropper or two), I suddenly get consistently matched against people above my level. After this winning streak, I struggle maintaining 3800 and often drop to as low as 3500-3600, while before I didn't have this at all.
    To put it simply: one winning streak ruined my chances of staying at the level I used to be at. SC should seriously revert this "feature" as it has too many negative side effects

    Note: all of this was after the last update.
    We are in the exact same boat. 3500-3999 is the game break range, imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by ophamtastic View Post
    i agree with your points although i'm currently at the 5k mark. you made a good point about the levelling of specific cards. from the start of the game, (i think i started around feb 2016), i made the decision to pick specific cards that i would request because it was the only way i could compete in the later game since i wasn't going to spend money.
    1. Giant (level 11)
    2. Zap (level 13)
    3. Archers (level 12 although i don't use them anymore)
    4. some other random cards that did well against the meta

    so i solely focused on 1-3.
    thank SC for including the draft challenge, double elix, etc and making tournament standards cards to be easily attainable. if that didn't happen, i would have quit a long time ago because playing the same deck or some iteration of it gets extremely boring. but that is the only way to compete at the 5k mark. i would not be here without a maxed giant/zap. my other cards in my deck are bowler (4), tornado (5), lightning (6 - thank you epic sundays), bandit (2) and ice wiz (3). random deck i know, but i like the bandit.

    supercell has allowed it and some people (like myself) took advantage. but what's done is done and at this point, there is no way to change it. its why ladder is no fun for me. very hard for me to compete without a near maxed deck. i tell my friends who play too that are struggling in your range, its impossible without having at least level 12 commons down there. the game has become overly saturated with new players who can drop the cash, and existing players who can't seem to progress further. i said to not care about trophy count anymore as thats what i've come to realize. just fill up your crown chest/chest slots daily and wait do challenges. its truly where people are almost evenly matched (because some players didn't unlock all cards) and the classic is only 10 gems. you typically get that in 2-3 days.

    the biggest thing for people is to not care about their trophy count. you will eventually progress.
    Thank you for your perspective, it definitely helps to add some dimension to the issue. Many of us wish we had the fortitude to stick with one deck as you have done. From my standpoint, those that are overleveled (and subsequently not overleveled as they rise) have been rewarded. Kudos to them for sticking with a plan and executing it. But going forward, for the health of the game, things need to change.

  7. #7
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    Cannot agree more with your MM points. Just want to add some different perspective on the same point. The point of the ladder is to climb it. There is some expectation when you lose more your opponents will get weaker. Thus giving you a chance to climb back up if you fall. But now that opponents will be the same power level (and in many cases much higher), how does SC expect people to climb back up?

  8. #8
    Super Member wolfenhase's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adevati View Post
    Why is this happening? Because players hit a peak after acquiring their Draft Chest. Realize they can't climb, and/or get frustrated facing max cards, and they drop. The new MM algorithm (more on that later) doesn't really kick in until 300ish trophies below their PB. So these players are safe in the 3800-3900 range.

    Possible Solution: You must be present to win. If you can't maintain your ladder position; you really don't deserve the reward.
    I drop for very simple reason; I lose!

    so your solution is that as soon as I reach my 4k and ensure my draft chest I have only 2 options, either keep playing getting my crown chest, slot chests, clan crown chests and maybe lose and so lose my draft chest or I just stop playing and have only the ensured draft chest?

    you dont have all marbles..
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  9. #9
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    I've been stuck at the lower end of hog mountain since they did the announced tweak to the matchmaking system and I just went 25 matches over the last two days without facing someone with lower king tower, win total or personal best. Been in the 3200-3000 range but regularly face guys with two to threee times my win total and 500+ trophies higher PBs. My son just started playing recently and I feel sorry for him trying to move up if this is occurring at lower arenas.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Respected's Avatar
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    100 percent agree. Since the mm change, I can't even get close to my pb of 3,813. Im facing players with pbs +300 to 500 of mine.

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