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Thread: Imagine War Weight In-Game

  1. #1
    Centennial Club Hawker's Avatar
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    Imagine War Weight In-Game

    I suspect there are several people in this forum that feel very strongly against the idea of SC publishing the details of their matchmaking algorithm, but please, hear me out.

    An underlying reason why players are frustrated with matchmaking is because they don't understand how it works. Many match-ups are unfair or perceived as unfair, and it is not always clear how or why the two clans matched in the first place. I propose that units in the game (defenses, troops, heroes - anything that affects war weight) be given a war weight value that is posted whenever you open up the information button (little blue "i").

    The values would be posted along side their other statistics, like damage, HP, etc, and would also show how much increase whenever you hit the upgrade button. On someone's profile, the offensive weight and defensive weight could be totaled and posted for all to see, along with the combined war weight. Finally, whenever you match another clan in war, you can see each clan's total weight, which would be a sum of the individual combined base weights (this is oversimplifying I am sure).

    The reason I support this idea is because it would bring to light whether the individual unit weights make sense. The community could provide meaningful feedback on potential tweaks to weights based on their testing experiences, rather than guessing what the weights are and how they are calculated in the first place.

    The main criticism I anticipate with this is that people think it will lead to further exploitation of the matchmaker. To this I say, we are beyond the point of exploitation being a limited problem that needs to be contained - the majority of clans out there are already engineering their bases to a certain extent in order to give their clan the best possible chance of victory. The underlying problem is the incorrect valuation done by the matchmaker, not the behavior of the players. You won't change the behavior of engineers, you can only make it unattractive for them to do so.

    Finally, I think this idea came from a Clash with Ash video a long time ago when he actually did CoC videos (burn!), so I can't take credit for it. Additionally, I would argue that a change like this is essential for the long term stability and fairness of the MM system. There have been many great suggestions on the forums, and I will readily admit that I have not had time to read them all . However, I would welcome a discussion on this idea and links to parallel discussions if they are relevant. Thanks!
    Last edited by Hawker; April 21st, 2017 at 03:11 AM.
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  2. #2
    Forum Elder TankSinatra's Avatar
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    Would it be useful to casuals? If not, unlikely to be considered by SC.
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  3. #3
    Millennial Club wysiwyg's Avatar
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    More info is better than less info. The casuals will ignore it, no problem

    However their quasi-windoze style of 'security through obscurity' doesn't cut it

    To be honest, I'd love to see any communication from sc beyond their quarterly reminders that they're still kicking.

    Now, truth be told, honest sauce is the best sauce - this is the only game I regularly play, so perhaps it's usual for a game company to ignore their client base. I wouldn't know.

    I will admit that I've visited tencent's site looking to ask them about their vision for the future of clash... but, my internet Kung fu wasn't good enough to navigate their Chinese site.

  4. #4
    Skrags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawker View Post
    Finally, I think this idea came from a Clash with Ash video a long time ago when he actually did CoC videos
    Indeed, I remember that video.
    Any transparency of war weight, will get a mixed reaction here on the forums.
    The reality is though that the vast majority of clans and players do not subscribe to the forums/reddit, and don't watch Youtube videos.
    They just play the game and want to have fun doing so.

    Would I personally like to have a bit more info on war weight, just so I could understand it better? - Of course, yes.
    Do I think this would be good for the game as a whole? - No, I don't.

    I do however understand the theory that "we are beyond the point of exploitation being a limited problem that needs to be contained", but I still don't believe we should give the engineers the blueprint to matchmaking.

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  5. #5
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    I dont agree with this. Yes the cat is out of the bag as far as the amount of engineering and releasing weights is unlikely to make it significantly worse. The problem would arise when you make what is already a large amount of engineers even more effective. You think complaints are bad now just wait till we have a large amount of clans that can win like the martians because they have the exact recipe for success.

  6. #6
    Tomville's Avatar
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    I'm trying to imagine the howls of outrage that would come whenever weights on anything got tweaked.
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  7. #7
    OnyxDS's Avatar
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    One problem with showing the war weights is the famous non-linearity. The weights appear to work on a completely different scale internally before conversion to the gold bonus that appears in the stores. So if the game said that adding the eagle would add 700 weight, or whatever, that's going to create confusion as it doesn't relate at all to the war weights players are used to - it's over 10k in visible war weight.
    Alternatively if the system converted to show the gold gain applicable to your base as it now exists, then that will mean that weights change unpredictably. A new TH11 could told that the 4th xbow adds 900 gold, decide to add the eagle first, and come back to the xbow to find it now adds 680 gold instead. Which will lead to all sorts of confusion and even belief that the order you add items to the base matters.

    And then, as others said, it's just encouraging engineering even more
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  8. #8
    Forum Elder TankSinatra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TankSinatra View Post
    Would it be useful to casuals? If not, unlikely to be considered by SC.
    Forgive me for quoting myself, but I should refine this. Would it give the war forum a further advantage over casuals? If so, unlikely to be considered by SC.
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  9. #9
    Centennial Club Hawker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TankSinatra View Post
    Forgive me for quoting myself, but I should refine this. Would it give the war forum a further advantage over casuals? If so, unlikely to be considered by SC.
    I think it could only narrow the gap between casual players and more "hardcore" players (for lack of a better term). It reduces the time and effort required to understand the impact your decision has on war weight, which would allow more players to take it into consideration.

  10. #10
    Centennial Club Hawker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skrags View Post
    Do I think this would be good for the game as a whole? - No, I don't.

    I do however understand the theory that "we are beyond the point of exploitation being a limited problem that needs to be contained", but I still don't believe we should give the engineers the blueprint to matchmaking.

    So, I think the greater problem is that the matchmaker has the weights of certain buildings (ITs, EA, mortar, etc) out of whack, not that people exploit that fact. Making it harder for them to exploit by hiding the information from them only delays the inevitable and has the unintended consequence of denying the casual player the same opportunity to do so if they like.

    If the information were made available, but the weights were more in line with reality, then there would be little room to exploit in the first place. Further, whenever they do an update and the meta shifts, the weights will become unbalanced and need adjustment. The adjustment would be easier to see and the community could provide better feedback if we could all see it.

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